Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful

The Big Dog said:
Hi! It is fantastic when we see the spectacularly faulty reasoning laid out in such detail!

Let me clarify what I have so dutifully explained:

atheist tyrants = anti-religious.

type something about brown suits to your heart's content, it literally can't get worse for your "argument."
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Of course, an atheist is against religion, but that doesn't make him a tyrant. Most atheists are democrats. Therefore, Mr. Xi does not attack the freedom of religion because he is an atheist, but because he is a tyrant. On the other hand, even in a democracy, Christians continue to persecute those who do not think like them: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/20/spains-blasphemy-laws-stifle-freedom . That is the danger of the Christian religion.
 
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The Big Dog said:
Anti atheist agenda is much much worse than putting a million Muslims in camps.

We heard already.

Tolatrain atheist Chinese government cracking down on religion.

Firm Marxist Atheists. ******* monsters
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I don't think you actually believe that at all.

If you really believed that, you would refuse to support and be complicit in such actions.

Why are you happy to be complicit in such monstrous acts?
 
The Big Dog said:
Anti atheist agenda is much much worse than putting a million Muslims in camps.

We heard already.

Tolatrain atheist Chinese government cracking down on religion.

Firm Marxist Atheists. ******* monsters
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Give sacramental wine a rest!

What is "tolatrain"? (don't blame the autocorrect)

Your subdued hate speech: «Firm Marxist Atheists. ******* monsters»

In vino veritas, Freudian slip or coming clear with your agenda?: «Anti atheist agenda is much much worse than putting a million Muslims in camps»
 
Well, as far as I'm concerned, yes, some atheists do bad things and attribute those bad things to the cause of atheism. Some theists do bad things and attribute those bad things to the cause of their religion. I don't think either of those things says anything about either atheism or theism.

It may say something about a set of doctrines that a person or group of people is labelling as atheism and it may say something about the set of doctrines that a person or group of people is calling their religion, but it may also be entirely unconnected with the attribution being a fig leaf, and it would be a sign of extremely sloppy thinking to believe that that set of doctrines being called atheism or that particular set of religious beliefs or claimed religious beliefs were representative of or relevant to all or even most atheists or theists.

In my experience, though, the people on this board tend towards tribalism on issues such as this, regardless of whether they're theists or atheists, which is why I usually stay away from this section and threads like these.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Exception that proves the rule?
It that a thing?
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It's definitely a thing!
Who was that guy that you always see wearing sandals when he's portrayed in the movies? Long hair, often a beard as well, but almost always sandals. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't Karl Marx even though the long hair and the beard would fit the description, but I never saw Marx in any movie wearing sandals.
Could the guy with the sandals have served as some kind of inspiration to Pol Pot?


ETA: No. No sandals:
 
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The Big Dog said:
Religion harshly persecuted. Nuthin to do with the official atheist party tho?

Oh man, ******* ridiculous. Go put some Muslims in a ******* camp, burn a Bible and tell us how it had nuffin to do with atheist monsters
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Since when have you ever cared about what happens to Muslims?
 
arthwollipot said:
See? He hasn't even noticed the fact that I've posted three or four times now - that what I found appalling was not the fact that he was posting ******** on the internet, but that by posting ******** on the internet he was redirecting and distracting from the real cause of the atrocities, which is totalitarian cultural imperialism, and thus permitting such atrocities to continue. I mean, it's almost as though I hadn't already explained that four or five times. Counterarguments have absolutely no effect on The Big Dog - his ideology makes him immune to reason. But there's no way he can even acknowledge his complicity in the very persecution that he claims to be so concerned about. His hatred and disgust of atheists is more powerful by far than any other concern.

Yes, what we can see here is extremely clear. That's one small thing that he may be right about.
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If he admitted that the political structure was to blame and not the atheism, then he'd have to deal with all the times the Catholic Church engaged in similar behavior.
 
arthwollipot said:
I'm going to have to go home now and remember that I have friends in modern, progressive churches who are just as strongly against totalitarian cultural imperialism and human rights abuses as I am, and not as dishonest and hateful as you are. They provide a good example of what religion can be. What religion should be. I choose to associate with them, and not with you.
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Think of Fred Rogers.

Everything Fred Rogers did stemmed from his faith. His belief in God guided his life. He was ordained as a minister early in the run of his television program. He never mentioned Jesus during his show, he just LIVED his faith.
 
halleyscomet said:
Think of Fred Rogers.

Everything Fred Rogers did stemmed from his faith. His belief in God guided his life. He was ordained as a minister early in the run of his television program. He never mentioned Jesus during his show, he just LIVED his faith.
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Thanks for mentioning him. Except for his faith, he looks like the kind of person most non-theists would like to be, unlike many a theist that swarm around this forum.
 
The Big Dog said:
they are perverting Christianity to promote "core socialist values, patriotism and Chinese history."
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IOW they are prototypical Conservatives.

While I don't really approve, it's far from the worst expression of Conservative ideology going on in the world. It's the nature of Conservatives to try and supress uncomfortable thought. The only difference here is that a group you associate yourself with is on the other end of things this time.
 
lomiller said:
IOW they are prototypical Conservatives.

While I don't really approve, it's far from the worst expression of Conservative ideology going on in the world. It's the nature of Conservatives to try and supress uncomfortable thought. The only difference here is that a group you associate yourself with is on the other end of things this time.
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:eye-poppi

they are Firm Marxist Atheists.....
 
The Big Dog said:
:eye-poppi

they are Firm Marxist Atheists.....
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Conservatives are traditionalists. You said yourself that they were appealing to traditional values, this makes them Conservatives.

And, to answer your unstated question, yes Marxism can be a Conservative ideology when it is no longer a reform and has become part of the tradition in it’s own right. The Communist leadership in China are Conservatives. Putin and the Oligarchy controlling Russia and Conservatives. Islamic terrorists are Conservatives. All are tided together by a common desire for what in their view is a traditional standard of morality or conduct and they all oppose new thoughts and ideas that challenge their traditional world.
 
The Big Dog said:
they are Firm Marxist Atheists.....
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Really?!

China maintains its capitalist course (Systemic Disorder, Oct. 25, 2017)
Xi Jinping Thought Combines Mao's Totalitarianism And Deng's Crony Capitalism (Forbes, Oct. 31, 2017)
As Xi concentrates power in China, its frothy capitalism will rage on (Star Tribune, Oct. 30, 2017)
China Maintains its Capitalist Course (Counter Punch, Oct. 27, 2017)



ETA: I only just now noticed TBD's capitalization of the word Firm, which means that we have all misunderstood the intended meaning: It is not the adjective, it's the noun:
firm noun UK /fɜːm/ US /fɝːm/
​
B1 a company offering a professional service, for example a company of lawyers:
He works for a law firm called Neil and Vigliano.
She's just started working for an accounting firm.
a firm of solicitors/accountants/architects
​
mainly uk a company or business, especially a small one:
She works for a local firm that makes medical equipment.
This new tax will put a lot of small firms out of business.
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So what TBD refers to is a very particular branch of Marxism, one that has completely given up on Communism and instead embraces Capitalism wholeheartedly: Firm Marxist = Business Marxist!

I think we all owe TBD an apology for misunderstanding the obviously intended meaning of the term.
 
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Right, and this is another fallacy: Just because an idea once was revolutionary, it doesn't mean it stays that way. In fact most revolutionary ideas, provided they survive at all, end up being conservative.

Heck, even Christianity was once very revolutionary.

Hans
 
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lomiller said:
Conservatives are traditionalists. You said yourself that they were appealing to traditional values, this makes them Conservatives.
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Uh, no they said that they were appealing to traditional socialist values, but by all mean if y'all want to say that the Chinese Communist Party is "conservative" by all means, knock yourself out.

According to William Nee, China researcher for Amnesty International, obligatory Marxist atheism has been conspicuously absent from party decrees over the past two or three decades. No longer. “It’s not a change per se, but it’s significant when that message is being reinforced by the highest levels,” Nee says.
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Certainly, Xi thought it was necessary to emphasize in his weekend speech that CCP cadres must act as “unyielding Marxist atheists … and bear in mind the party’s tenets.” Deploying an oddly religious phrase, he also told them to “consolidate their faith.”

Oh, I like Unyielding Marxist Atheists even better!
 
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