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What a horrible process this has become. I hope Kavanaugh withdraws from this cesspool. Who would ever want to participate in this slimy arena?

Makes me sorry that I vote.

What horrible people we have in our government.

I'm done with this.
 
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What a horrible process this has become. I hope Kavanaugh withdraws from this cesspool. Who would ever want to participate in this slimy arena?

Makes me sorry that I vote.

What horrible people we have in our government.

I'm done with this.

In this particular little play, if Kav was the choirboy he claims to have been none of this ******** would have happened.

If accusers coming forward signals to you that it must be only the Dems up to some nefarious smear job on Kav, then it's best that you indeed be "done with this." Because it would require CT thinking to leap to the conclusion that politicos are casting about for women who will lie for them and risk the kind of crap we've already seen meted out, not to mention the legal ramifications of making false allegations under oath.
 
Hmm, Thirsty’s witness was going to parties where she was at least 18 and in college into sophomore year in college when he was 16 and going to be a junior.

She went to ten or so parties where gang rapes were going on, she got gang raped at one in 1982, and kept going until 1983.

Sounds legit.

Yeah, maybe you could get 4Chan back on the case. They owe you one for suckering your sharp legal mind into a con, right?
 
There were only six people in the house, and one of them would have been wondering what happened to the girl he drove to the party. It's not like there were huge numbers of people coming and going, where one wouldn't be noticed.

I think most people would remember, and one out of three would certainly remember.

We've discussed this before. Ford never said how she got to the party, much less that a boy, or anyone, drove her. In fact, she clearly said she does not remember how she got there.

Why would anyone give more than a glancing thought to where Ford had gone? And why would they remember something so trivial 36 years later?
 
We've discussed this before. Ford never said how she got to the party, much less that a boy, or anyone, drove her. In fact, she clearly said she does not remember how she got there.

Why would anyone give more than a glancing thought to where Ford had gone? And why would they remember something so trivial 36 years later?
I've been at parties where someone (or multiple people) left angry. Usually, [inebriated] people turn to those near them and say, "Wow, what happened?" The reply is usually, "I don't know," followed by shrugs, then followed by more drinking and talking about whatever was being talked about before. Unless the person left in some very noticeable state of undress, even my best friends - people I [so far] consider highly ethical - wouldn't give it much more thought.
 
We've discussed this before. Ford never said how she got to the party, much less that a boy, or anyone, drove her. In fact, she clearly said she does not remember how she got there.

Why would anyone give more than a glancing thought to where Ford had gone? And why would they remember something so trivial 36 years later?

Of course she didn't remember how she got there, but she had to get there somehow. She was 15. She didn't drive herself. Walk? I suppose we could check a map to see how far it was, if we knew where she lived, but let's see, she remembers running from the house, but not how she got home? Even though the way she got home was highly unusual?

I spent an awful lot of time out drinking, mostly at small gatherings, typically seven to 10 people. Sometimes more. I figure if you counted up all of the nights I was drinking in high school, it would number about 200. I'm confident that not once did anyone just disappear and we didn't give it a thought. Never. She goes to the bathroom and never comes back*, and her friends just keep drinking without a thought? And the subject never comes up when they see her again? No way. Vanishing under those circumstances would not be a trivial thing.


This is one of those cases where her 30 year old memories cannot be doubted, but no one else's 30 year old memories can be trusted. It doesn't add up.

ETA* Or runs through the living room in obvious stress. It's not clear from her description if she exited the house where she would have been seen.
 
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The author of the article isn't related to Kavanaugh or the accusers, but shares her experience of the time:

I don’t personally know Ford now, and I didn’t know her in high school. But as the Holton women wrote, what Ford is alleging is “all too consistent with what we heard and lived while attending Holton. Many of us are survivors ourselves.” And what Elizabeth Rasor alleges Mark Judge told her is not foreign to me, either. Whether and how the nation comes to hear more about these specific stories, they have evoked a collective scream.

A large part of my high school experience were the parties at cavernous houses with multiple bedrooms, huge dark basements with enormous sofas and yards, and lots and lots of beer. No parents—thinking back on it now, as a parent myself—were ever around. We traveled in groups and knew never to leave a friend alone at a party, but there was so much drinking that we sometimes lost track of each other. It could be difficult to know where your friends were and—if they were in a room with a boy—what was going on in there.

Every June, we had Beach Week—a tradition also described in a Washington Post piece about Ford—in which teenagers actually rent houses to party at the beach, something I still don’t quite comprehend. I distinctly remember being at a Beach Week party with my then-boyfriend when it dawned on us that there was a drunk girl in a room down the hall, and boys were “lining up” to go in there and, presumably, have their way with her. We didn’t know for sure, but my boyfriend and my friend’s boyfriend went to interrupt it and sent her on her way down the stairs. All I remember about her is that she was in the class above us and had dark hair. My friend has told me she remembers boys saying, “I’m next,” which was why our boyfriends went to stop it. That was the only time I can clearly remember a situation that was so obviously a “lineup,” as it was referred to by some at school. My friend remembers witnessing another, and though there weren’t lineups of this nature at every party, they happened often enough that we had a term. We didn’t call it rape.

It was not always so formal a queue. I remember another time when boys were sitting in kind of a campfire circle that could have started as a game of spin the bottle. But by the time I walked through the room there was a girl who was drunk and in the center of the circle, and the boys were taking turns putting their hands up her skirt instead of kissing her.

For these girls who were assaulted, it felt like no one had adequately looked out for them, in a place where groups of two or more boys might be looking for someone who was drunk and vulnerable. I attended these parties knowing there was always a chance of this happening to me, were I not careful. I saw older boys who didn’t participate seem more angry at the girls who had “let” themselves get into bad situations. Our boyfriends had been able to stop that lineup only because they were seniors. But it was often like this: a solitary girl who found herself helpless against the power of a group of boys. It’s why Ford’s description of her alleged attack sounded so plausible to me—two drunk boys who had cornered her and were egging each other on. We went through years of parties like this intimidated, afraid, and horrified. And yet it was also just the way things were.

Linky.
 
Senior Senate Dem aide tells me there's a concern the GOP is "now releasing anonymous allegations in an effort to make all allegations look frivolous. We’re focusing on the ones that have names attached."

Or Russians? Not trying to be flippant here. It would be right out of their playbook, and what a great way to divide Americans.

Stay tuned. I wouldn't put much stock in completely anonymous tips, but sometimes those can grow into substantial leads.
 
I spent an awful lot of time out drinking, mostly at small gatherings, typically seven to 10 people. Sometimes more. I figure if you counted up all of the nights I was drinking in high school, it would number about 200. I'm confident that not once did anyone just disappear and we didn't give it a thought. Never. She goes to the bathroom and never comes back, and her friends just keep drinking without a thought? And the subject never comes up when they see her again? No way. Vanishing under those circumstances would not be a trivial thing.

To me, this sounds implausible.

You could be correct, but I would think that this shows that people have different experiences outside of one's personal experiences.
 
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To me, this sounds implausible.

You could be correct, but I would think that this shows that people have different experiences outside of one's personal experiences.

And maybe that's it. Certainly Elizabeth Rasor's description that you posted is completely foreign to my own experience.

What sounds familiar about it is that there was a drunk girl that was being harassed, and some other guys stepped in to stop it. I saw events that could fit that description. They weren't gang rapes. Guys weren't "lining up" to have sex with her, but there might have been multiple makeout sessions with a girl, including groping, but not multiple folks waiting for sex. I never saw anything like that, but Rasor's description of the frequency of the events, and the fact that there was a slang term for it, makes it clear that the culture she was in was different from mine.

As for Ford's experience, to me, the idea that one person in a party of six could disappear and that wouldn't be marked as a rare or unusual event is unfathomable. I guess I just grew up around nicer drunks.
 
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I spent an awful lot of time out drinking, mostly at small gatherings, typically seven to 10 people. Sometimes more. I figure if you counted up all of the nights I was drinking in high school, it would number about 200. I'm confident that not once did anyone just disappear and we didn't give it a thought. Never. She goes to the bathroom and never comes back*, and her friends just keep drinking without a thought? And the subject never comes up when they see her again? No way. Vanishing under those circumstances would not be a trivial thing.

And yet my experience of that time is the exact opposite.

I must have gone to hundreds of parties on the late 1970's early 1980's just the ones like you describe, at dozens of houses all over Christchurch. I can remember one or two of the streets (Opawa Road in Waltham and Rugby Street in St Albans were regulars but I can't remember any of the others). I would have known about 1/3 or less of the people at the parties (friends of friends of friends etc) and wouldn't have noticed at all if someone I didn't know disappeared from the house.
 
Christine Ford and Julie Swetnick share a common link:

Roughly a decade ago, Ms. Swetnick was involved in a dispute with her former employer New York Life Insurance Co., over a sexual harassment complaint she filed. Representing her in the complaint was the firm run by Debra Katz, the lawyer currently representing Dr. Ford.

-- Rebecca Baulhaus (Wall Street Journal reporter) Sept 26, 2018


Damn, it really is a small world.
 
A portrait of the Julie Swetnick, the third accuser. It includes a glimpse at the perspective of the Georgetown Prep crowd.
At least one of Kavanaugh’s classmates scoffed at the notion that Swetnick would have been a regular at parties with Georgetown Prep students.

“Never heard of her,” said the person, who declined to be named because members of the class have agreed not to speak on the record to reporters. “I don’t remember anyone from Prep hanging out with public school girls, especially from Gaithersburg.”

Note that he doesn't say the boys never did stuff like this, only that they didn't do it with the peasants, and that they aren't talking to reporters, even to speak in defense of their old buddy Kav -- if they could.
 
A portrait of the Julie Swetnick, the third accuser. It includes a glimpse at the perspective of the Georgetown Prep crowd.


Quote:
At least one of Kavanaugh’s classmates scoffed at the notion that Swetnick would have been a regular at parties with Georgetown Prep students.

“Never heard of her,” said the person, who declined to be named because members of the class have agreed not to speak on the record to reporters. “I don’t remember anyone from Prep hanging out with public school girls, especially from Gaithersburg.”​

Note that he doesn't say the boys never did stuff like this, only that they didn't do it with the peasants, and that they aren't talking to reporters, even to speak in defense of their old buddy Kav -- if they could.

I think it would be fair to say that where a girl comes from would not be one of the top criteria that testosterone-fuelled frat-boys use to determine whether or not they could feed her quaaludes and get into her pants.

Those criteria are likely to be (in no particular order)

- Is she good looking?
- Does she have a nice pair?
- Does she seem vulnerable?
 
I have to wonder what he's thinking.

The allegations are hogwash. Nothing like it has ever happened, ever. Does he really believe her, or is he playing some other game?

The fact that it happened multiple times in full view of non-participating witnesses, and was never reported. Note: The actual assault was not witnessed. The alleged assailants waited in a line outside the door, but a whole bunch of male and female high school students were there, knew what was happening, it happened multiple times, and no one said anything.

No.


You really don't get it. In the 80's and into the 90's this was normalized. No one reported it because the victim was just a "slut" that got what she "wanted". There was no one to turn to. The best they could hope for is someone giving them some moralizing speech on why they shouldn't have drunk so much.



Bottom line: the culture of the time made the girls not victims but the responsible party. Adults wouldn't help them. The other girls would just laugh and call her a slut.
 
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