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TERFs crash London Pride

kellyb said:
I might be. This sports development is kind of new.

I was just expressing my sense/suspicion that a vast majority of transwomen are aware of their biological athletic advantages in terms of muscle mass, etc compared to cis women, and would consider entering a "women's" sporting event extremely rude, and would never seriously consider doing that, but it only takes a tiny minority of jerks to render women's athletics functionally non-existent if it's not addressed in terms of policy.
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Surely it is up to all these clubs and organisations to decide on what rules they want to use?
 
Rolfe said:
Well, it's happening. Including at Olympic level. I've seen a number of articles about different examples. As you say, even a relatively small number of jerks can be enough to ruin things for everyone. The recent case of the male bodied prisoner who won the fitness prize in the women's prison is just one.
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The IOC and many other sporting organisations have been setting rules on who they consider to be female or not for literally decades, why shouldn't they continue to do this?
 
Rolfe said:
And talking of prisons, Kristoffer Johansson should absolutely be moved to a women's prison because he's a marginalised vulnerable trans person and as such doesn't pose any threat to the safety of other women in prison?

https://twitter.com/isacsohn/status/1043880474647629824
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How strange... I can't find anyone who's saying any of this.

Well, strange... you keep spamming outraged strawmen in this thread, then simultaneously claiming and denying it's mild hperbole, and oh look over there at the evil sex perverts... so I'm not very surprised.
 
Rolfe said:
If this is some sort of right-wing beyond-the-pale publication, I don't want to her about it .
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In that case, you'd better stop reading now:

WorldNetDaily (WND) is an American news and opinion website and online news aggregator which has been described as "fringe" and far right as well as politically conservative. The website is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily
 
Rolfe said:
If this is some sort of right-wing beyond-the-pale publication, I don't want to her about it . (I just googled for an article about trans people in sports.) Address the facts presented, not the compiler of the facts. (Interesting that there are a couple of girls there who identify as male and take testosterone - which is of course an anabolic steriod - and are cleaning up in the girls' competitions.)

https://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

And talking of prisons, Kristoffer Johansson should absolutely be moved to a women's prison because he's a marginalised vulnerable trans person and as such doesn't pose any threat to the safety of other women in prison?

https://twitter.com/isacsohn/status/1043880474647629824
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Can you point me to the research you've done to verify the claims in that article such as

.... Biological males are joining women’s teams, smashing*records and dominating*in sports such as*weightlifting, softball, cycling, track, wrestling, football, volleyball, dodgeball, handball, cricket, golf, basketball*and mixed martial arts.....

Would you like me to point to many articles claiming the success of homeopathy in exchange?
 
Porpoise of Life said:
How strange... I can't find anyone who's saying any of this.

Well, strange... you keep spamming outraged strawmen in this thread, then simultaneously claiming and denying it's mild hperbole, and oh look over there at the evil sex perverts... so I'm not very surprised.
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So you don't think Johansson is a marginalised vulnerable fragile trans person who should be affirmed into a women's prison because of his terrible trauma of being born in the wrong body, and so what if he assaults his fellow inmates, real women sometimes assault each other in prison too?

That's progress I suppose. You acknowledge that the evil sex perverts actually exist?
 
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Matthew Best said:
In that case, you'd better stop reading now:

WorldNetDaily (WND) is an American news and opinion website and online news aggregator which has been described as "fringe" and far right as well as politically conservative. The website is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily
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Well, I saw a couple of things in the article that suggested it wasn't exactly a nice publication. But it was the first thing I came across that had a lot of individual cases on the one page. I've read about several of these, individually, in mainstream publications, and the facts don't appear to be in dispute.
 
Rolfe said:
So you don't think Johansson is a marginalised vulnerable fragile trans person who should be affirmed into a women's prison because of his terrible trauma of being born in the wrong body, and so what if he assaults his fellow inmates, real women sometimes assault each other in prison too?

That's progress I suppose. You acknowledge that the evil sex perverts actually exist?
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I'll note again that nobody was saying what you claimed they were.
Your strawmen are your own and I'm under no obligation to defend or refute any of them.
 
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Rolfe said:
So you don't think Johansson is a marginalised vulnerable fragile trans person who should be affirmed into a women's prison because of his terrible trauma of being born in the wrong body, and so what if he assaults his fellow inmates, real women sometimes assault each other in prison too?

That's progress I suppose.
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You may be surprised but most of us judge people on their actions rather than their claimed gender.
 
Rolfe said:
If this is some sort of right-wing beyond-the-pale publication, I don't want to her about it . (I just googled for an article about trans people in sports.) Address the facts presented, not the compiler of the facts. (Interesting that there are a couple of girls there who identify as male and take testosterone - which is of course an anabolic steriod - and are cleaning up in the girls' competitions.)

https://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/
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Echoing what others have written, there's such a thing as a source that is so abysmal that not one word can be trusted. WND is such a source. And true to form, they don't provide links to confirm the crap they publish.

I don't think it's terribly hyperbolic to say that WND is arguably the worst data source on the internet, if we count only sources with a substantial readership.
 
I've never seen it before. The details of the cases listed are as I recall them from other media sources.
 
Rolfe said:
If this is some sort of right-wing beyond-the-pale publication, I don't want to her about it .
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Of course you don't, because that would impact the credibility of the article and the way it presents the information. You're willfully ignoring the clear and obvious spin given by the source.

For those who haven't already made up their minds to support any and all anti-trans reports uncritically, WND, formerly WorldNetDaily, is an arch-conservative organ of the Religious Right, founded by Evangelical Christian and Tea Party leader Joseph Farah, has hosted a column by Rush Limbaugh, promoted racist "Birther" conspiracy theories, and is barely above Breitbart as a purveyor of Evangelicalism, racism, conspiracy theories, and "fake news".

(I just googled for an article about trans people in sports.) Address the facts presented, not the compiler of the facts.
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Sure. The "facts" are badly out-of-context, distorted, and mixed with a lot of "alternative facts" to serve a profoundly anti-LGBTQ+ religious right spin. Got a source that provides the actual facts, and citations for the facts?
 
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varwoche said:
Echoing what others have written, there's such a thing as a source that is so abysmal that not one word can be trusted. WND is such a source. And true to form, they don't provide links to confirm the crap they publish.

I don't think it's terribly hyperbolic to say that WND is arguably the worst data source on the internet, if we count only sources with a substantial readership.
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Infowars, maybe. They're neck and neck.

I think people from across the pond don't realize that the worst of the US rightwing media makes the worst of the UK rightwing media look like the NYT in comparison.
 
kellyb said:
Infowars, maybe. They're neck and neck.
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Or Breitbart.

I think people from across the pond don't realize that the worst of the US rightwing media makes the worst of the UK rightwing media look like the NYT in comparison.
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Funny little discovery last year: if you look at platform and political activity, the "moderate right" Republican Party in the US is a bit to the right of the UK's "far-right" UKIP.
 
Darat said:
And their evidence for their claims?
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Is in sadly short supply.

In 38 pages, there has not been a single shred of evidence posted from a reliable news outlet, or a peer-reviewed and verified scientific journal, that in any way supports any of the anti-trans claims made. Every single link and reference has been from radical anti-trans sources on the loony left, or generally anti-LGBTQ religious right organs (and outright anti-LGBTQ hate groups). In both cases, the only "evidence" has been anecdotes from extremists, highly manipulated and out-of-context statistics (with a lot of Texas Sharpshooter practice), and a whole lot of Gish Gallop, begging the question, and personal insults.

All of the evidence from established, mainstream, reliable, fact-checking new sources and reputable scientific journals has thoroughly debunked the claims of the radicals and extremists and religious nutters. I think at this point this can be safely relegated to the realm of woo conspiracy theories.

In the meantime, violence against transpeople continues to rise.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/11/us/sproj-iyw-anti-violence-project-transgender-violence/index.html
https://www.aclu.org/blog/lgbt-righ...adly-violence-against-transgender-people-rise
https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2018
https://avp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/a-crisis-of-hate-january-release.pdf
http://www2.philly.com/philly/news/transgender-violence-women-of-color-shantee-tucker-20180906.html
https://www.hrc.org/blog/alarming-spike-in-violence-against-clevelands-transgender-community-demands
 
A bunch of posts that were personalizing the argument have been moved off to AAH. Please keep to the topic. The topic is not each other. Keep it civil.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis
 
kellyb said:
...makes a lot of sense, and I've heard similar sentiments from other transwomen in regard to the general behavior of people who crossdress here and there, mostly whenever it's most convenient, and with no respect for the lifechanging and traumatic experience of...actually transitioning out of necessity.
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They are different people with different needs taking different journeys.
 
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