Iran calls to destroy Israel, solves the "who's gonna hit Iran's nukes" question.

[a_unique_person]

Capel Dodger, you are sooo going to replace AUP as the favorite target....

See you in Flame Wars/Administration.

Hutch

Which says a lot, doesn't it. Forum members as targets?

 

[Darat]

Which says a lot, doesn't it. Forum members as targets?

As admin: Please take it elsewhere.

 

[Ed]

That doesn't mean I would like to see the Eastern Mediterranean nuked and its population exterminated. Has anyone in Iran declared that as their objective?

QUOTE]

Coming up:

TEHRAN 14 Dec. (IPS) One of Iran’s most influential ruling cleric called Friday on the Muslim states to use nuclear weapon against Israel, assuring them that while such an attack would annihilate Israel, it would cost them "damages only".

"If a day comes when the world of Islam is duly equipped with the arms Israel has in possession, the strategy of colonialism would face a stalemate because application of an atomic bomb would not leave any thing in Israel but the same thing would just produce damages in the Muslim world", Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi-Rafsanjani told the crowd at the traditional Friday prayers in Tehran.

Analysts said not only Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani’s speech was the strongest against Israel, but also this is the first time that a prominent leader of the Islamic Republic openly suggests the use of nuclear weapon against the Jewish State.

"It seems that Mr. Hashemi-Rafsanjani is forgetting that due to the present intertwinement of Israel and Palestine, the destruction of the Jewish State would also means the mass killing of Palestinian population as well", observed one Iranian commentator.
http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm

This is from 2001. I suggest that their murderous philosophy is quite ingrained.

 

[Ed]

My first thoughts when I heard on this story on the radio was "I didn't know things were so bad for the current Iranian government". I'm pretty certain they must be sending prayers of thanks to Allah for the existence of Israel.

Without Israel they'd be hard to press to conjure up such an effective bogeyman to explain why their people are still dirt poor despite massive oil revenues, why little Mohammad can't get proper medical care. Much easier to scream and shout "It's Israel's fault!".

They can bluster about the USA and the evil West - but they know they can only go so far, after all they don't want another popular revolution that stops the oil flowing to their number one customer.

Best thing for the "West" to do? Ignore it, consider it like feeding trolls, the only person who gets what they want is the troll.

In a non-nuclear world I would agree. However, couple nukes with a love of death (jews, brits, americans, co-religionists, anybody) I don't think that you have that luxury, Neville.

 

[Darat]

In a non-nuclear world I would agree. However, couple nukes with a love of death (jews, brits, americans, co-religionists, anybody) I don't think that you have that luxury, Neville.

But do they really have the capability to build and deliver to wherever a nuclear weapon?

(Oh and ignoring posturing madmen without the capability to harm you is not the same as buying oil from them, sorry appeasement )

 

[Ed]

But do they really have the capability to build and deliver to wherever a nuclear weapon?

(Oh and ignoring posturing madmen without the capability to harm you is not the same as buying oil from them, sorry appeasement )

From the yahoo reference, above:

Iran announced earlier this year that it had fully developed solid fuel technology for missiles, a major breakthrough that increases their accuracy. The Shahab-3, with a range of 810 miles to more than 1,200 miles, is capable of delivering a nuclear warhead to Israel and U.S. forces in the Middle East.

That isn't all, it would make them something of a player where the wellbeing of poor opressed moslems is at stake:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distances.html?n=246&lat=35.750&long=51.500

As far as buying oil, I have made my position on that abundently clear.

 

[Darat]

From the yahoo reference, above:


That isn't all, it would make them something of a player where the wellbeing of poor opressed moslems is at stake:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/distances.html?n=246&lat=35.750&long=51.500]

I've read many of these reports but I don't conclude from them that they have actual working nuclear weapons able to harm "us". When there was all the discussion and debate about the Pakistani and Indian nuclear weapon programmes there was a lot more substantiation. (Plus then of course there were the impossible to hide tests.) Iran doesn’t seem to be at even the testing stage yet, but perhaps it is a very soon to reach yet, which is all the more reason to not trade or have anything else to do with them. Except make it quite clear that if they did use nuclear weapons against any country there would no longer be an Iran. There should be no hesitation of making that position clearly known.

As for an oppressor of other people - isn’t that a reason from the slippery slope? Whilst other countries such as China oppresses more people then Iran why bother with a little country like Iran?

 

[Ed]

I've read many of these reports but I don't conclude from them that they have actual working nuclear weapons able to harm "us". When there was all the discussion and debate about the Pakistani and Indian nuclear weapon programmes there was a lot more substantiation. (Plus then of course there were the impossible to hide tests.) Iran doesn’t seem to be at even the testing stage yet, but perhaps it is a very soon to reach yet, which is all the more reason to not trade or have anything else to do with them. Except make it quite clear that if they did use nuclear weapons against any country there would no longer be an Iran. There should be no hesitation of making that position clearly known.

Agree, generally. The point is that they have, at the highest levels, stated their intentions vis a vis Isreal, and those are not good. They sound almost Nazi-like in their vituperation and that is only from the translated stuff, god knows what they say for private consumption.

You have reflected a portion of my neo-isolationist philosophy. To the mid-east nutjobs: nuke Isreal, meet Allah. They must be absolutely assured that they will be completely and totally destroyed in such an event.

As for an oppressor of other people - isn’t that a reason from the slippery slope? Whilst other countries such as China oppresses more people then Iran why bother with a little country like Iran?

Slippery slopes are not always wrong. I think, however, that you misinterpreted what I said. I meant that their ability to inculcate themselves into discussions/negotiations regarding moslems is directly related to the range of their missles.

 

[LeFevre]

You have Mycroft agreeing with you. I suggest you take a few moments to reflect on that. He expands on it by quoting a report that Al-Qaeda folk - who have declared Shiites heretics and apostates worse even than Crusaders and Zionists - are strutting around Tehran organising, I dunno, attacks on Shiite holy places in Iraq. It strains credulity, doesn't it? Iran is, on the one hand, accused of trying to gain influence in Shiite Iraq, while on the other hand supporting Al-Qaeda, and of course keeping it secret from the Iraqi Shiites they're trying to influence. Mycroft knows about it, but he doesn't imagine that Shias just across a porous border do.

You don't want Mycroft on your side. It impacts on your credibility. Deny him three times and you're safe.

A little poision for your well?

 

[zenith-nadir]

A little poision for your well?

Typical Capel M.O. When he disagrees with another poster the "credibility" flames begin.

 

[Darat]

Agree, generally. The point is that they have, at the highest levels, stated their intentions vis a vis Isreal, and those are not good. They sound almost Nazi-like in their vituperation and that is only from the translated stuff, god knows what they say for private consumption.

Oh I presume much, much worse. That's why I say they must be thankful Israel exists. It makes an ideal bogey men, every ill, every split glass of water can be blamed on Israelis.

You have reflected a portion of my neo-isolationist philosophy. To the mid-east nutjobs: nuke Isreal, meet Allah. They must be absolutely assured that they will be completely and totally destroyed in such an event.

I extend that to everyone - for all it was a form of madness MAD I (now) believe did give the world a breathing space after the second world war.

Slippery slopes are not always wrong. I think, however, that you misinterpreted what I said. I meant that their ability to inculcate themselves into discussions/negotiations regarding moslems is directly related to the range of their missles.

I did misunderstand - sorry. Yes that is a problem BUT I think the real threat comes more from the activities such as they are alleged to be doing in Iraq i.e. exporting the ones even they consider to be nut-jobs to other countries to cause tensions and internal strife. I think nuclear weapons are a bit too blunt a tool to be much use in local negotiations, but then again we are talking about people who believe in a big daddy in the sky.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Oh I presume much, much worse. That's why I say they most be thankful Israel exists. It makes an ideal bogey men, every ill, every split glass of water can be blamed on Israelis.

Ain't that the truth. In the Arab world Israel is responsible for just about everything from world domination to 9-11 to both Iraq wars to blood libel to massacres-that-never-happened to controlling the American media AND government....etc...etc...etc...

 

[zenith-nadir]

World Expresses Dismay Over Iran Remarks - http://interestalert.com/story/site...ller&Fid=WORLDNEW&Type=News&Filter=World News

Governments around the world expressed shock and scorn Thursday at the Iranian president's call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map,' and several summoned Tehran's envoys in their capitals for a reprimand.

Israel's deputy ambassador to Britain, Zvi Rav-Ner, said it was unheard of for a U.N. member state to call 'for genocide and wiping off of another member state of the U.N.'

Australian Prime Minister John Howard called Ahmadinejad's remarks 'dangerous' and said they required a U.N. response, although he wasn't specific. 'To have the president of any country saying another should be wiped off the face of the earth is a reminder of the psychological pressure, quite apart from the actual pressure, that the state of Israel is under, and this obviously is an issue that the United Nations has to address,' he said.

The 25 European Union leaders, meeting at Hampton Court Palace near London, also condemned the remarks, saying they 'will cause concern about Iran's role in the region and its future intentions.' 'Calls for violence, and for the destruction of any state, are manifestly inconsistent with any claim to be a mature and responsible member of the international community,' the EU leaders said in a statement.

'The contents and tone of such unacceptable statements confirm worries over the political positions pursued by the new Iranian leadership, especially concerning the nuclear dossier,' the Italian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, on a visit to Israel, criticized the Iranian leader. 'I don't agree that anyone should challenge the right of any U.N. member to exist, this is indeed inadmissible,' Lavrov said.

Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew condemned the comments in a strongly worded statement. 'We are in the 21st century. Canada will never accept such hatred, intolerance and anti-Semitism. Never,' the statement said.

Iran it's time to open your mouth and change feet.

 

[Ed]

Oh I presume much, much worse. That's why I say they must be thankful Israel exists. It makes an ideal bogey men, every ill, every split glass of water can be blamed on Israelis.

Emmanuel Goldstein, indeed.

I did misunderstand - sorry. Yes that is a problem BUT I think the real threat comes more from the activities such as they are alleged to be doing in Iraq i.e. exporting the ones even they consider to be nut-jobs to other countries to cause tensions and internal strife. I think nuclear weapons are a bit too blunt a tool to be much use in local negotiations, but then again we are talking about people who believe in a big daddy in the sky.

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll....for people who seem to think that subtlety personified is videotaping a decapitation I would suggest that you give them far too much credit. I sincerely believe that, for some at least, if they could be sure that one moslem would be around after killing all the jews they would see it as a good deal. Certainly their rhetoric would support this. And before one poo-poos (is this a violation?) their rhetoric remember that it is coming from a government not an independent nut job.

 

[Mark]

Emmanuel Goldstein, indeed.



Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll....for people who seem to think that subtlety personified is videotaping a decapitation I would suggest that you give them far too much credit. I sincerely believe that, for some at least, if they could be sure that one moslem would be around after killing all the jews they would see it as a good deal. Certainly their rhetoric would support this. And before one poo-poos (is this a violation?) their rhetoric remember that it is coming from a government not an independent nut job.

I have to say, the next person who says that Islam is the "Religion of Peace" really needs get back on medication.

 

[Ziggurat]

I would like to see Israel wiped from the map.
...
That doesn't mean I would like to see the Eastern Mediterranean nuked and its population exterminated.

But that's the only possible way you could get what you want. Do you even understand why people therefore object to you wanting it?

 

[Mycroft]

Best thing for the "West" to do? Ignore it, consider it like feeding trolls, the only person who gets what they want is the troll.

The worst trolls can do is p*ss you off and make discussion difficult. Iran is building nukes. Not the same thing at all.

 

[Mark]

Could the timing of Iran's threat have anything to do with the fact that the US is tied town in pointless war in Iraq? Not to mention the fact that Iraq is no longer a threat to Iran in any way.

Naaaaah. The war there has made us safer. Israel, too.

 

[LW]

I would like to see Israel wiped from the map.

That doesn't mean I would like to see the Eastern Mediterranean nuked and its population exterminated.

Seems like these two wishes of yours are mutually exclusive.

 

[Seismosaurus]

The worst trolls can do is p*ss you off and make discussion difficult. Iran is building nukes. Not the same thing at all.

So what if Iran has nukes? They won't use theirs because they won't want us to use ours. It'll be MAD all over again.