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Split Thread Conservative Voices (Split from Muller Investigation)

River said:
For instance: this or this. I think whoever came up with the idea of the pussy hats and marketed them made a nice penny though! Capitalism at its best. IMHO, and as someone that is all for equal rights for women (or anyone) the types of things I just posted are not a good front for feminism.
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You do realize that pussyhats are, in fact, cat ears that only require basic knitting/crocheting skills, and that the pattern was always freely available, right?

I mean, I knew that the first time I actually saw them, and I have exactly 0 knitting experience.

As for the rest...protests are made to get attention. It was fine for MLK Jr. to march in his sunday's best, since he could count on Bull Connor to lose his mind and the entire police force to turn violent (again, kind of like what happened in Ferguson, except that was unplanned on the part of the victims, and went on for weeks.). When the government won't blast people with fire hoses and sic dogs, but there's still a problem, sometimes it takes something more dramatic to bring out cameras.

And, as we've seen, Dolt 45 has proven disastrous for basic women's health issues. Mens' as well to some degree, but dudes don't seem to take that seriously nearly as often.
 
. . . and that the pussy hat movement sprang directly from Trump's "Grab 'em by the pussy" admission of habitual sexual assault that was ignored by far too many in the American electorate.
 
 
River said:
Have you ever listened to a Farrakhan speech or Duke speech? How is one not as bad as the other? Do I need to post examples of Farrakhan saying extremely racist things? (we already know dukes does)
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I just can't dredge up the hate for Farrakhan that I have for Duke, even though both have said totally vile things. Farrakhan is an 85 years old black man who grew up in a society where systemic racism was tolerated and was even the law of the land in parts of the country. I can't imagine what that must have been like, and I don't condone what he says, but I can certainly understand how living in this kind of country as a POC might have warped his thinking.

Duke has no excuse. He's a white racist in a land where white people control all the levers of power. What a waste of a person.
 
 
Fudbucker said:
I just can't dredge up the hate for Farrakhan that I have for Duke, even though both have said totally vile things. Farrakhan is an 85 years old black man who grew up in a society where systemic racism was tolerated and was even the law of the land in parts of the country. I can't imagine what that must have been like, and I don't condone what he says, but I can certainly understand how living in this kind of country as a POC might have warped his thinking.
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That's similar to the way I feel about him.

I'm really more upset by the very real, horrifying injustices that would cause his particular type of extremism than I am the fact that he felt/feels that way, and came to those conclusions, and said so.
 
Fudbucker said:
I just can't dredge up the hate for Farrakhan that I have for Duke, even though both have said totally vile things. Farrakhan is an 85 years old black man who grew up in a society where systemic racism was tolerated and was even the law of the land in parts of the country. I can't imagine what that must have been like, and I don't condone what he says, but I can certainly understand how living in this kind of country as a POC might have warped his thinking.

Duke has no excuse. He's a white racist in a land where white people control all the levers of power. What a waste of a person.
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And again, the NOI does not have bloodbath history of the KKK.
 
kookbreaker said:
And again, the NOI does not have bloodbath history of the KKK.
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My understanding is that they don't even aspire to control the whole country. They're just sick of having to be subject to and fight against the systemic white power structures which still exist in our society, and they want to go do their own thing, separately.

Interestingly enough, a NOI family just brought over a home-made key lime pie to us last night. (We'd brought them a bunch of chicken and dumplins' a couple of nights before. People do a lot of home cooked food exchanging in my neighborhood). I don't agree with or even like the religion, but these people are not loathsome, malicious threats.
I feel very :thumbsup: about my NOI neighbors. If someone like David Duke lived next door, I don't know how I'd deal with that. I guess I'd coordinate with other folks to...encourage him to leave.
 
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kellyb said:
Worth repeating:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-d...ollege-educated-republican-women-are-extinct/
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Very interesting! Especially in that it starts by quoting Steve Bannon saying so. I did notice that the graph somewhat belies this statement:
Working-class white women and college-educated white men are bouncing around in the middle.
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In fact, the graph shows the drop in Republican support from college-educated white men is just as dramatic as that in women. They just started from a higher level. What is different is that the increase in support for Dems is less for the men.
 
River said:
Identity politics meaning: i·den·ti·ty pol·i·tics
noun a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.

However, your definition definitely says a lot about your perspective.
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...and what aspects of the

1) Whites are more victimized than blacks/Whites are the real minority

2) Christians are persecuted in America (War on Christmas BS, for example)

...tenets of today's Republican party prevents them from being, in your mind, identity politics?

Republicans constantly condemn Democrats for playing victimization "narratives" with minorities who truly are victimized by society, while hypocritically playing victimization narratives with those who in fact enjoy privileged positions in society.
 
Cabbage said:
...and what aspects of the

1) Whites are more victimized than blacks/Whites are the real minority

2) Christians are persecuted in America (War on Christmas BS, for example)

...tenets of today's Republican party prevents them from being, in your mind, identity politics?

Republicans constantly condemn Democrats for playing victimization "narratives" with minorities who truly are victimized by society, while hypocritically playing victimization narratives with those who in fact enjoy privileged positions in society.
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An additional word on this "victimization narrative" crap:

When people tell their kids that they can't trust the police, that they will face discrimination in schools and the workforce, and so forth, it has nothing to do with "feeling like a victim" The statements are simply facts of living in the US today. Yes, it's absolutely true that you have to be careful around police, as they themselves repeatedly say when they talk about how they were "in fear for their lives" because a black guy said "gun", or said "Stop messing with me every day", or reached too quickly for their license after the cop asked them to produce a license. Yes, teachers will absolutely suspend you, and not little Billy, even though you were both doing the exact same thing, at the same time, together. Yes, many employers will take one look at you and immediately assume that you *must* be unqualified - and students will insist that you "must" be Affirmative Action, or that you "must" be cheating if you get a much better grade than they do. And yes, they will shriek and howl if you point out these things - even when they themselves repeatedly say it themselves, as the NYPD did when Bill De Blasio stated that he teaches his son to be careful around police, right after they got done justifying the murder of Eric Garner for basically just standing around while black.

That's not "being a victim", that's just preparing children for society, and giving them what they need to avoid these pitfalls and succeed. What i find interesting is how many outlandish myths many white christians believe - Obama never said "Merry Christmas" (he was taped doing so on many occasions), black people pay no tuition to go to college (they graduate with higher loan debts, and are more likely to drop out for financial reasons), and so forth. What on earth are they preparing their children for, apart from a false sense of resentment? As I said, there are many conservative black and Latinx people, but they either sit elections out, or (especially among black Americans) vote for democrats, because the overt hostility towards them from the GOP is overwhelming.

Always, always projection...
 
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Mumbles said:
An additional word on this "victimization narrative" crap:

When people tell their kids that they can't trust the police, that they will face discrimination in schools and the workforce, and so forth, it has nothing to do with "feeling like a victim" The statements are simply facts of living in the US today. Yes, it's absolutely true that you have to be careful around police, as they themselves repeatedly say when they talk about how they were "in fear for their lives" because a black guy said "gun", or said "Stop messing with me every day", or reached too quickly for their license after the cop asked them to produce a license. Yes, teachers will absolutely suspend you, and not little Billy, even though you were both doing the exact same thing, at the same time, together. Yes, many employers will take one look at you and immediately assume that you *must* be unqualified - and students will insist that you "must" be Affirmative Action, or that you "must" be cheating if you get a much better grade than they do. And yes, they will shriek and howl if you point out these things - even when they themselves repeatedly say it themselves, as the NYPD did when Bill De Blasio stated that he teaches his son to be careful around police, right after they got done justifying the murder of Eric Garner for basically just standing around while black.

That's not "being a victim", that's just preparing children for society, and giving them what they need to avoid these pitfalls and succeed. What i find interesting is how many outlandish myths many white christians believe - Obama never said "Merry Christmas" (he was taped doing so on many occasions), black people pay no tuition to go to college (they graduate with higher loan debts, and are more likely to drop out for financial reasons), and so forth. What on earth are they preparing their children for, apart from a false sense of resentment? As I said, there are many conservative black and Latinx people, but they either sit elections out, or (especially among black Americans) vote for democrats, because the overt hostility towards them from the GOP is overwhelming.

Always, always projection...
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Agreed!
 
Mumbles said:
An additional word on this "victimization narrative" crap:

When people tell their kids that they can't trust the police, that they will face discrimination in schools and the workforce, and so forth, it has nothing to do with "feeling like a victim" The statements are simply facts of living in the US today. Yes, it's absolutely true that you have to be careful around police, as they themselves repeatedly say when they talk about how they were "in fear for their lives" because a black guy said "gun", or said "Stop messing with me every day", or reached too quickly for their license after the cop asked them to produce a license. Yes, teachers will absolutely suspend you, and not little Billy, even though you were both doing the exact same thing, at the same time, together. Yes, many employers will take one look at you and immediately assume that you *must* be unqualified - and students will insist that you "must" be Affirmative Action, or that you "must" be cheating if you get a much better grade than they do. And yes, they will shriek and howl if you point out these things - even when they themselves repeatedly say it themselves, as the NYPD did when Bill De Blasio stated that he teaches his son to be careful around police, right after they got done justifying the murder of Eric Garner for basically just standing around while black.

That's not "being a victim", that's just preparing children for society, and giving them what they need to avoid these pitfalls and succeed. What i find interesting is how many outlandish myths many white christians believe - Obama never said "Merry Christmas" (he was taped doing so on many occasions), black people pay no tuition to go to college (they graduate with higher loan debts, and are more likely to drop out for financial reasons), and so forth. What on earth are they preparing their children for, apart from a false sense of resentment? As I said, there are many conservative black and Latinx people, but they either sit elections out, or (especially among black Americans) vote for democrats, because the overt hostility towards them from the GOP is overwhelming.

Always, always projection...
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True. The bias against people of color is not just perception, it's been statistically validated. It is terrible to not only have to live with that, it's also terrible to have your very real perceptions be dismissed as "victimization narrative". Such dismissive attitudes hinder any real work to address the root causes of the very real bias that exists.
 
LSSBB said:
True. The bias against people of color is not just perception, it's been statistically validated. It is terrible to not only have to live with that, it's also terrible to have your very real perceptions be dismissed as "victimization narrative". Such dismissive attitudes hinder any real work to address the root causes of the very real bias that exists.
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Well said.
 
LSSBB said:
Such dismissive attitudes hinder any real work to address the root causes of the very real bias that exists.
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For those exceedingly rare intelligent racists out there who are completely aware of and simply in love with their white privilege, I'm pretty sure that's kinda the point of promoting that narrative/attitude. Richard Spencer has nearly admitted to doing that.
 
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