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TERFs crash London Pride

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I'm just going to repeat what I said earlier on the topic of locker rooms/changing rooms without changing stalls:

I'm not worried about transwomen - I'm worried about creepazoid cis-dudes. Policy has to account for both.

Re: changing rooms, I likewise think that's an area where it's important for the space to be (and I'm cringing saying this) cis-exclusive. Creepy voyeuristic dudes do exist, and...being the peeping tom types they are ...of course they're going to abuse changing room policy wherever and however they can. There's no way they won't take advantage of a trans inclusive changing room policy.

I think it's locker rooms specifically that often don't, but in my (limited) experience, they do have areas of bathroom stalls you walk by to get to the open changing area, so whenever applicable, a good policy should just encourage transwomen to change in there. I suspect that's actually what most transwomen already do.

How is that unreasonable?
 
Or, maybe it's people who are concerned about the obvious open door the new legislation offers to absolutely any man at all who wants to get naked in women's changing rooms, and are trying to demonstrate this.

What do y'all think of this by the way?

https://twitter.com/CreditSuisse/status/1042723980979908608

I feel like I need more backstory to have any opinion at all about that.

Is that an individual who currently lives most of their life with male privilege and only "becomes" a transwoman occasionally, generally crossdressing just sometimes for fun, and this time to win a woman's award?

Or are the comments misrepresenting the situation?
 
I've read a few articles about him and that seems to be more or less how it is. He's married with children. He's Philip Bunce most of the time but it depends on what he feels like when he gets up in the morning. Some days he decides to be Pippa and on these days he puts on a wig and a dress. Nothing wrong with that of course. But on these days he uses the ladies room despite having a male body, and he's just been given a place on an awards list for female executives.
 
I've read a few articles about him and that seems to be more or less how it is. He's married with children. He's Philip Bunce most of the time but it depends on what he feels like when he gets up in the morning. Some days he decides to be Pippa and on these days he puts on a wig and a dress. Nothing wrong with that of course. But on these days he uses the ladies room despite having a male body, and he's just been given a place on an awards list for female executives.

Sometimes I go somewhere and the men's room is out of order, and a dude will be in there, and there will be the slightly awkward "Sorry! I'm not trying to be a weirdo, the men's room is just down!" mini-convo, and it's more funny than alarming, so if this individual goes in the ladies room when he's having a "wearing a dress" day, that doesn't bother me.

The whole "given a place on an awards list for female executives" thing really is obnoxious, tho.

The twitter comment that said:

As a transsexual woman with a recognised medical condition, who fights for credibility every day, who fights myths every day, who’s undergone lengthy surgery, who’s life was unbearable in the wrong body, I find this story an insult. Transgender has become totally meaningless
...makes a lot of sense, and I've heard similar sentiments from other transwomen in regard to the general behavior of people who crossdress here and there, mostly whenever it's most convenient, and with no respect for the lifechanging and traumatic experience of...actually transitioning out of necessity.

I like drag queens. All the ones I've ever known irl were really awesome people.

That behavior described above is really not cool, though, and surely exceedingly rare, just like I suspect transwomen entering "women's" sporting events is really rare, but because of the "went through male puberty" athletic advantage, it needs to be addressed with policy, because it only takes one per sporting event for "women's sports" to be decimated.
 
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I keep thinking about this, and...

Or, maybe it's people who are concerned about the obvious open door the new legislation offers to absolutely any man at all who wants to get naked in women's changing rooms, and are trying to demonstrate this.

There are a LOT of peeping tom men out there - the sort who install cameras in women's changing rooms. It seems like they're probably a lot more prevalent than some "principled" dude who would do this...

Staff members then “asked the man to leave and offered the availability of a family changing room.”

He did not accept the offer.

After his swim, he “again entered the women’s locker room to change.

...Out of a sincere desire to "help women and girls".

But I guess you never know. It's not impossible that it was the world's creepiest pro-woman protest action.
 
Come to think of it, haven't most incidents in bathrooms and changing rooms involved (cisgender) men, frequently janitors, installing peepholes or cameras? I mean, other than our right-wing friend mentioned above. Maybe we need to outlaw male janitors!
 

Ugh. They all sound to me like a bunch of incel-type *** holes who really like the idea of invading women's (cis and trans women's spaces) and being voyeuristic pervs, egging one another on to be creepy and aggressive for the perv-tastic fun of it.

I hate people sometimes.
 
Ugh. They all sound to me like a bunch of incel-type *** holes who really like the idea of invading women's (cis and trans women's spaces) and being voyeuristic pervs, egging one another on to be creepy and aggressive for the perv-tastic fun of it.

On a lighter note

Female campaigners 'self-identify' as men to infiltrate male only pool at Hampstead Heath

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/female-campaigners-selfidentify-as-men-to-infiltrate-male-only-pool-at-hampstead-heath-a3850556.html
 
I keep thinking about this, and...

There are a LOT of peeping tom men out there - the sort who install cameras in women's changing rooms. It seems like they're probably a lot more prevalent than some "principled" dude who would do this...

...Out of a sincere desire to "help women and girls".

But I guess you never know. It's not impossible that it was the world's creepiest pro-woman protest action.


I don't know. I was merely pointing out that there was more than one possible explanation for what happened. I'm aware of Man Friday of course.
 
... and I've heard similar sentiments from other transwomen in regard to the general behavior of people who crossdress here and there, mostly whenever it's most convenient, and with no respect for the lifechanging and traumatic experience of...actually transitioning out of necessity.


This. The very real problems of the marginalised transsexual have been weaponised by a bunch of blokes with a kink who get off on LARPing their own oversexualised fantasy of womanhood, and who demand access to women's spaces with menaces rather than working constructively to fit in.

And I think you're underestimating what has started to happen in sports.
 
If trying to look like a woman is regarded as depraved insulting sex LARP, then what would you consider 'constructively fitting in'?
 
And I think you're underestimating what has started to happen in sports.

I might be. This sports development is kind of new.

I was just expressing my sense/suspicion that a vast majority of transwomen are aware of their biological athletic advantages in terms of muscle mass, etc compared to cis women, and would consider entering a "women's" sporting event extremely rude, and would never seriously consider doing that, but it only takes a tiny minority of jerks to render women's athletics functionally non-existent if it's not addressed in terms of policy.
 
Well, it's happening. Including at Olympic level. I've seen a number of articles about different examples. As you say, even a relatively small number of jerks can be enough to ruin things for everyone. The recent case of the male bodied prisoner who won the fitness prize in the women's prison is just one.
 
If this is some sort of right-wing beyond-the-pale publication, I don't want to her about it . (I just googled for an article about trans people in sports.) Address the facts presented, not the compiler of the facts. (Interesting that there are a couple of girls there who identify as male and take testosterone - which is of course an anabolic steriod - and are cleaning up in the girls' competitions.)

https://www.wnd.com/2017/03/female-athletes-crushed-by-women-who-were-once-men/

And talking of prisons, Kristoffer Johansson should absolutely be moved to a women's prison because he's a marginalised vulnerable trans person and as such doesn't pose any threat to the safety of other women in prison?

https://twitter.com/isacsohn/status/1043880474647629824
 
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