Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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Amazer said:
Just a gut feeling... but the UK drivers that are likely to drive down into the continent are most likely not the ones that voted for Brexit and thus should be alright.
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That's not my experience, all the Leave voters in my old pub were retired with second properties in Europe who would drive there and back a couple of times a year. The most fervent leaver I've met was an obnoxious 'Kipper who would go into a full on rage at the slightest suggestion of anything less than a full and immediate hard Brexit with no compromise, he was a fellow vintner and would make multiple runs to France each year to fill his 4x4 with wine for himself and to sell to his private clients.
 
It was a tremendous blunder of Cameron not to allow the (sizable number of) expats to vote on Brexit: it would have been no contest for Remain.

When you only let the least cosmopolitan part of your population vote, no wonder you get the most jingoistic result.
 
Amazer said:
Of course it's possible... I'm quite sure no one is denying that. Not from the UK-side and not from the EU side either. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this would be one of those things that have been agreed upon already, part of the 80% which Barnier and Raab referred to.

But it's a small part of the larger, overall deal... and till that larger deal is agreed upon, and ratified by both the UK and the EU and its member, the issue remains that it's quite possible that UK driver licenses will no longer be valid in the EU after Brexit day and vice versa.
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Because if there is not an agreement on everything there is no agreement at all.

A well known principle of EU negotiations that nobody in the UK Government ignores.
 
Amazer said:
Of course it's possible... I'm quite sure no one is denying that. Not from the UK-side and not from the EU side either. I wouldn't at all be surprised if this would be one of those things that have been agreed upon already, part of the 80% which Barnier and Raab referred to.

But it's a small part of the larger, overall deal... and till that larger deal is agreed upon, and ratified by both the UK and the EU and its member, the issue remains that it's quite possible that UK driver licenses will no longer be valid in the EU after Brexit day and vice versa.
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I doubt that there will be mutual recognition of driver's licences. The EU does not issue licences. The 28 have agreed to accept each other's licences but they make their own rules about third country licences.
Fill in some brexiteer talking points here: Yadda yadda sovereignty... yadda yadda other free trade agreements don't include that... yadda yadda
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It was a tremendous blunder of Cameron not to allow the (sizable number of) expats to vote on Brexit: it would have been no contest for Remain.

When you only let the least cosmopolitan part of your population vote, no wonder you get the most jingoistic result.
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When Cameron's errors are catalogued, it'll be in there, but will face stiff competition for a top 10 spot.

While I dearly wish the vote had gone the other way, I'd find it hard to argue the decision ought to be changed due to the wishes of people disenfranchised because hadn't lived in the UK for over 15 years.
 
ceptimus said:
More project fear.
If there's any difficulty for Brits wanting to drive in the rest of Europe, then we would retaliate by making it equally difficult for any EU citizens wanting to drive in the UK. It's in everyone's interest to mutually recognize each other's licenses so that's what will happen. Just the same as Americans wanting to drive in New Zealand, South Africa or Brazil, there won't be any problems unless the EU decide to behave like spoiled children.
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It will be easy to sort out by the time you get a Visa to go there anyway.
 
ceptimus said:
Again with the golf club analogy. The EU is not a golf club, though it is mostly run by old rich white men.


If you leave a golf club, you're not expected to continue paying the pensions of the bar staff and other employees.
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Except of course you are. You are required to keep paying until a new member steps up to replace you.

See a case involving the President of the US.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-pn-trump-golf-lawsuit-appeal-20170808-story.html
 
P.J. Denyer said:
That's not my experience, all the Leave voters in my old pub were retired with second properties in Europe who would drive there and back a couple of times a year. The most fervent leaver I've met was an obnoxious 'Kipper who would go into a full on rage at the slightest suggestion of anything less than a full and immediate hard Brexit with no compromise, he was a fellow vintner and would make multiple runs to France each year to fill his 4x4 with wine for himself and to sell to his private clients.
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Ah smuggling in the british tradition!
 
Lothian said:
Quick hard brexit, pay the EU sod all, watch them come running to us begging for a deal. What are you smoking?
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Someone tell ceptimus the British Empire died a long time ago....and the UK is not nearly as powerful as in was in Queen Victoria's day.
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
It was a tremendous blunder of Cameron not to allow the (sizable number of) expats to vote on Brexit: it would have been no contest for Remain.

When you only let the least cosmopolitan part of your population vote, no wonder you get the most jingoistic result.
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Ex-pats could vote, unless they had lived abroad for more than 15 years, which is what made me ineligible. As it happens, while I would have voted Remain, given the choice, I was slightly of the impression that morally I ought not vote because of how little it affected me, personally. As crazy as it sounds, the great unwashed that you complain about have more of a claim to a vote than I do.

Besides, I have now got myself and my son Irish passports, so another reason why this doesn’t really affect me a great deal.

As for the mess we are in, I honestly think that they should just agree to doing a Norway. The UK the will then be out of the EU but then be in a position from which subsequent elections can be campaigned on according to how the terms can be modified. If voters want further dissociation from the EU they can vote on it by electing governments that promise those terms in their manifesto as is the traditional way in parliamentary democracies.
 
I remember before the UK joined the Common Market that BBC News was continually harping on about balance of payments difficulties, which hardly made the viewers cheery at the time. Most people on this forum probably don't remember that.There is an interesting analysis which seems to be financially sensible in a Financial Times article which implies that balance of payments difficulties may rear its ugly head again. To my mind Britain still had North Sea oil during EU membership:

https://www.ft.com/content/b252d149-86e8-32de-9a5c-94b6baea96f3

It looks like the Financial Times have blocked that article unless you make a subscription to them.
 
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Paywalled.

Yes, the North Sea oil began to flow in pretty much simultaneously with joining the EEC. It brought in a lot of money but the downside was it inflated the value of sterling which hurt manufacturing exports.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Paywalled.

Yes, the North Sea oil began to flow in pretty much simultaneously with joining the EEC. It brought in a lot of money but the downside was it inflated the value of sterling which hurt manufacturing exports.
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Henri McPhee said:
https://www.ft.com/content/b252d149-86e8-32de-9a5c-94b6baea96f3

It looks like the Financial Times have blocked that article unless you make a subscription to them.
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The FT let's you past their paywall if you come from google. Just google "uk balance conundrum" to get the link and it will let you in.
 
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