Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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abaddon said:
And you are also not expected to rock up and play a round whenever you like either.
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Not unless the club allows non-members to play. Many (most?) golf clubs do allow this, providing, of course, that you pay the fee for playing that round and abide by the club's rules while you play. No golf club selling this service would expect you to also abide by all their rules when playing at other golf courses. Once again we see how totally inappropriate the golf club analogy is for the EU.
 
ceptimus said:
Not unless the club allows non-members to play. Many (most?) golf clubs do allow this, providing, of course, that you pay the fee for playing that round and abide by the club's rules while you play.
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And if the UK wants to pay per game, with of course lower priority than actual members and their guests, then they may be permitted to do so.
After they've settled their outstanding dies first, of course.
 
ceptimus said:
Not unless the club allows non-members to play. Many (most?) golf clubs do allow this, providing, of course, that you pay the fee for playing that round and abide by the club's rules while you play. No golf club selling this service would expect you to also abide by all their rules when playing at other golf courses. Once again we see how totally inappropriate the golf club analogy is for the EU.
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Actually, the analogy should be reverse.
A golf club (the EU) has a set of rules. you want to play there, you follow those.
Now if a different golf club you also play at has a totally different set of relaxed rules, you cannot expect that you can then play by those rules everywhere else.
So if, for instance, you want to export things to the EU, they will have to comply with EU standards, even if you buy them in the US that lacks said standards.

Of course, if you are part of a club you can try to change the rules, provided you get the other members to agree. If you just want to play without a fee on a case by case basis, you have no influence at all. And if you signed a two year contract, even if you leave you usually still have to pay for what you committed to.

And yes, that means that once the UK leaves the EU it will need to re-negotiate a lot of things. And while of course the UK will try to negotiate in its favour, the EU will do the same. And since it represents far more people, a stronger market and is less reliant on the UK than the other way around those negotiations will more often then not be in their favour.

The driving licenses are a good example. UK citizens not being able to drive in the EU is an annoyance, but not that much export comes from the EU that it will cripple parts of the economy. But the other way round it transpires that a LOT of food is transported to the UK and thus EU citizens not being able to drive there will most likely cause food problems.
Now you and other brexiteers may find it childish, but really, why would you expect the EU to keep giving Britain all sorts of perks for nothing in return?
 
Should the EU even trust that someone who voted for Brexit has the judgement necessary to drive safely? I've never seen poor decision making listed as a good skill to possess for drivers.
 
bam said:
Should the EU even trust that someone who voted for Brexit has the judgement necessary to drive safely? I've never seen poor decision making listed as a good skill to possess for drivers.
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Just a gut feeling... but the UK drivers that are likely to drive down into the continent are most likely not the ones that voted for Brexit and thus should be alright.
 
Aber said:
According to the link in my post:;)
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That doesn't seem right though as when i got one Im pretty sure it was only valid for a year.... either because it expired or perhaps because the country i was visiting only allowed me to use it for 12 months?

nor did it address my question in whether you can renew indefinitely.
 
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ceptimus said:
If the thing under discussion benefits both sides, then it's stupid to argue that the benefit "arises from EU membership". Only the childish EU would argue, "Yes, such-and-such an agreement would benefit us as well as you - but we're not going to do it anyway because we want to punish you for daring to leave".
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Jesus. It arises from the EU because it does. Simple statement of fact. When you leave the EU you lose the benefits of being a member. You can renegotiate those benefits if you want but you need to actually make an agreement. which you have repeatedly said we shouldnt try to do.
 
Amazer said:
Just a gut feeling... but the UK drivers that are likely to drive down into the continent are most likely not the ones that voted for Brexit and thus should be alright.
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Oh you would be surprised. Your typical brexiteer probably enjoys his two weeks in the Algarve with a hire car. Luckily they are probably too thick and ignorant to realise their license wont be valid anymore. Airport car hire desks are going to be hotbeds of gammon outbursts for years to come. Look forward to seeing the first of them jailed on the front of the Fail.
 
Amazer said:
Just a gut feeling... but the UK drivers that are likely to drive down into the continent are most likely not the ones that voted for Brexit and thus should be alright.
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Oh you would be surprised. Your typical brexiteer probably enjoys his two weeks in the Algarve with a hire car. Luckily they are probably too thick and ignorant to realise their license wont be valid anymore. Airport car hire desks are going to be hotbeds of gammon outbursts for years to come. Look forward to seeing the first of them jailed on the front of the Fail.
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Yep. And shopping. A couple of morons in my office regularly shoot across on a wine/beer/cigarette run. They bring enough stuff back for friends to cover the costs.
 
fagin said:
Yep. And shopping. A couple of morons in my office regularly shoot across on a wine/beer/cigarette run. They bring enough stuff back for friends to cover the costs.
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And are probably looking forward to the re-introduction of Duty Free. :)
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Jesus. It arises from the EU because it does. Simple statement of fact. When you leave the EU you lose the benefits of being a member. You can renegotiate those benefits if you want but you need to actually make an agreement. which you have repeatedly said we shouldnt try to do.
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I've said it was pointless trying to negotiate with the EU because, as yet, they are not negotiating in good faith: they are still trying to put as many obstacles as possible in the way of leaving, in the hope that we will then decide to remain. The EU needs the cold hard reality shock of us actually no longer being an EU member, and only then will they begin to negotiate agreements that can benefit both sides. Unfortunately, the EU's stance does mean a period of disruption for both sides - and in my opinion it's better not to procrastinate with the commencement of that period - delay will only prolong the disruption.
 
ceptimus said:
I've said it was pointless trying to negotiate with the EU because, as yet, they are not negotiating in good faith: they are still trying to put as many obstacles as possible in the way of leaving, in the hope that we will then decide to remain. The EU needs the cold hard reality shock of us actually no longer being an EU member, and only then will they begin to negotiate agreements that can benefit both sides. Unfortunately, the EU's stance does mean a period of disruption for both sides - and in my opinion it's better not to procrastinate with the commencement of that period - delay will only prolong the disruption.
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The delusions never end.
 
ceptimus said:
I've said it was pointless trying to negotiate with the EU because, as yet, they are not negotiating in good faith: they are still trying to put as many obstacles as possible in the way of leaving, in the hope that we will then decide to remain. The EU needs the cold hard reality shock of us actually no longer being an EU member, and only then will they begin to negotiate agreements that can benefit both sides. Unfortunately, the EU's stance does mean a period of disruption for both sides - and in my opinion it's better not to procrastinate with the commencement of that period - delay will only prolong the disruption.
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My screen needed a good coffee shower this morning. Many thanks for the assist.

:9
 
Maybe corporations should try the same tactic: tell their ex-employees that what they need is the cold, hard shock of learning that since they've gone on to work for other companies, MegaCorp will no longer pay their portion of their pension when it falls due. That'll teach 'em. Though I'm not sure what.
 
ceptimus said:
I've said it was pointless trying to negotiate with the EU because, as yet, they are not negotiating in good faith: they are still trying to put as many obstacles as possible in the way of leaving, in the hope that we will then decide to remain. The EU needs the cold hard reality shock of us actually no longer being an EU member, and only then will they begin to negotiate agreements that can benefit both sides. Unfortunately, the EU's stance does mean a period of disruption for both sides - and in my opinion it's better not to procrastinate with the commencement of that period - delay will only prolong the disruption.
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Have you considered the possibility that the EU is negotiating in good faith? That what the UK is asking for is is just not possible without undermining the very foundation of the EU?

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UK phone companies will start charging their customers roaming fees for calls made from the EU.
This alone should showcase the necessity of a second referendum.
 
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Amazer said:
Have you considered the possibility that the EU is negotiating in good faith? That what the UK is asking for is is just not possible without undermining the very foundation of the EU?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
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Of course it's possible for the EU and the UK to, for example, mutually recognise and accept driving licenses. Project fear and the EU would have you believe otherwise, because they are desperate and will say anything, however absurd, in their efforts to get the UK to remain.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
UK phone companies will start charging their customers roaming fees for calls made from the EU.
This alone should showcase the necessity of a second referendum.
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Several companies have already stated that they won't. Any companies that do will lose customers.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Maybe corporations should try the same tactic: tell their ex-employees that what they need is the cold, hard shock of learning that since they've gone on to work for other companies, MegaCorp will no longer pay their portion of their pension when it falls due. That'll teach 'em. Though I'm not sure what.
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Do you think companies continue to pay into the pension pots of ex employees? If there are such companies then they are both rare and foolishly generous.
 
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