What’s the powerful argument to this?

This is starting to sound like the sort of jokes mathematicians tell among themselves.
 
Roboramma said:
Eos, cool.
Elephants are the largest land animal, they have their tusks and the trunks and their behaviors that are unique to them.
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Our uniqueness allows us to invent and fly a huge heavy machine. Let's see an elephant do that.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Our uniqueness allows us to invent and fly a huge heavy machine. Let's see an elephant do that.
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So we are morally superior because we can build huge machines?

By the way, here's a link to the full text of the article Dawkins wrote, in case anyone is interested(it also appears in one of his books, maybe A Devil's Chaplain?):
http://articles.animalconcerns.org/ar-voices/archive/mind_gap.html

I think what he was opposing in it was the assumption without even thinking about it that humans are morally superior. That there is some huge divide between us and the rest of the animal kingdom.
I don't think there is one. There may be some differences between us and other animals that suggest different treatment in certain situations (for instance, I don't think we should let gorillas vote ;) ), but some blanket assumption that what is human is simply by it's nature necessarily more valuable than what is not, is, in my opinion, unsupportable.
And all the reasons given so far seem like post hoc rationalizations. "Here is something that is different about us from all other animals, maybe that's a good reason to treat them differently?"

To avoid confusion of my opinion I'll say it again, though - I do think there are some situations in which animals should be treated different from humans, but those things should be based on good reasons, not justifications. In one of my posts up-thread I gave what I think the criterion should be for determining that.

I note the point made often above that we treat other humans differently because we are human. I understand that point, I'd say that yes, that is exactly true.
But I don't think it's a good thing to base your morality upon. After all, racism could be justified in the same way. Without a morally meaningful distinction, it's not a case as to why we should treat others differently, just an explanation as to why we do.
 
Originally Posted by Jyera :------------------
The Key is the sentence "Let's get our priorities right, please!"...snip...

To answer "What's so special about humans?"
Just ask "Who am I?". And get your priorities and affiliation right.
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Darat said:
I disagree - that just gives an answer for why I am special to me. It doesn't follow from that that I should regard other humans special, in fact if I use the "I'm me" as the bases for why I am special it means that others humans aren't special since they are not me.
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Well , it is you priorities and your decision to your affiliate.
And if I have that much ego, then only I am special (and good), and Others are not-special.

A less self-centred perspective is needed to accommdate a greater group-wide agreement of "specialness".

Question: Who am I ?
Answer: I'm a human? I'm an animal? I'm JREF member? Earthlings? OR.. how about this, I'm not a aardavak , but I'm one of the many aardavak-lover.
Or. I'm someone with a similar DNA as my child. Each answer leads to some affiliation. You

Many people can put down reasons for human to be special. The different reasons could include undeniable physical and mental attribute.

Perhaps some are looking for the most popular reason for specialness in human. Then it is simply a popularity survey.
 
Moreover, I would say ...

Human are special ... because we are in the forefront of evolution.
And we have taken evolution of our species into an entirely different realm.
With the brain and society as the vehicle, we have frog leaped ahead to accelerate our evolution. Our body will not change too much physically, but our ideas, culture, philosophy, knowledge, believes, ingenuity are exploding.
Just look at the huge amount of cultural and material artifact.

Consider a hermit crab's habit of getting a shell from other's.
Did the hermit crab "evolved" and extra feature ?
What ever the answer, it is nothing compared to human.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Our uniqueness allows us to invent and fly a huge heavy machine. Let's see an elephant do that.
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Yes. I agree with Eos. Let see some competition.

Not that we are arrogant. But there is something very real and special happening all over the world.
 
yeah, so special we blow (or chop) each other's heads off after labelling each other *evil*

If it weren't for the ivory poaching, I'd envy the elephants.

:cool:
 
Jyera said:
Moreover, I would say ...

Human are special ... because we are in the forefront of evolution.
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Jyera, what exactly does the phrase "in the forefront of evolution" mean? I get what you say about cultural evolution being a new thing (although I'd say it's not completley unique to humans, just a far stronger force in us than in other species).
Just looking to understand what the forefront of evolution could be.
 
Well, I'm just guessing, but I think it kind of means we're at the end of a line of ancestors. Octopi are at an end of a line as well. So are Gorillas....

Hmmm. At the same time we are living during a time where we are not very taxed for food or resources compared to the past. We are able to diversify. There are all shapes and sizes of people, not to mention a whole lot of us. All kinds are surviving when they wouldn't have before. When we are faced with some hardship or disaster then there is a good chance some collection of humanity will survive with whatever traits are needed to get past the point of whatever disaster. Heck, some people can't get infected by HIV because of a mutation most of us don't have.

We are in the best shape possible right now to face an evolutionary stressor.
 
Roboramma said:
[/b]Jyera, what exactly does the phrase "in the forefront of evolution" mean? I get what you say about cultural evolution being a new thing (although I'd say it's not completley unique to humans, just a far stronger force in us than in other species).
Just looking to understand what the forefront of evolution could be.
Click to expand...
Forefront literarily means ahead. Some will argue there is no such thing as being ahead in evolution. And that there are only fitness to survival. (not strong or better). I don't disagree.

But take note of the other words I used.
"Frog leaped" and "accelerated." , "brain ... as the vehicle"
"society as vehicle"

I feel human and their brain has reached and exceeded a critical-mass. Beyond which, any animal would have been able to use their brain in a fashion like human. Not just the mass, but also the way we use it.

So now the evolutionary changes start to happen in the brain. And human evolution accelerated in the mind. The new evolutionary trait are not physical. Eg. We grow new language, philosophy and even political beliefs to aids us as if we have new virtual distorted extra eye and limps. With our multiple invisible limps, we are growing to something like a FSM.

The other animal, have not reached that critical mass.
By the time they reach that, human would have had a run-away-headstart in terms of evolution. (and I don;t mean physical)

They are still racing car speeding on the runway of an airstrip, while our planes are already soaring. How fast can they catch up, when we hardly see any of them liftingoff, while we are speeding XXXkm/h in the sky?

Eos's End-of-line description of octopi and gorrilla does indicate that they have to have a breakthough evolution before they can leapfrog ahead.

Humans had done it. We're at the end of the line as a "racing car" and now we have "wings". Whether we are at the end-of-line as a "airplane" i'm not sure.

But I share the same kind of wonder, optimism and disgust as Eos have about our evolutionary status.
We creates our own ◊◊◊◊-hole, intimately called society, in which we swim amongst lies, diseases, drugs, malice, ignorance, compassion and evolve to be more and more adaptable. We're in much better shape than the animals.
 
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