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NY Times editorial bombshell

kellyb said:
"During this time the United States is prepared to negotiate..."

So, it was giving them 6 months for a new trade agreement to be found.
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No, it was terminating the current agreement and keeping open about another. It changes nothing about the fact that Trump was unilaterally pulling out of the agreement.

Trump's now saying a new agreement has been found and will be signed soon.
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Statistically, there's a 70% chance of that being untrue simply because Trump's saying it.
 
Belz... said:
Yeah, "unable" to do his job could mean anything, so long as the cabinet agrees on what it means. It was left deliberately vague.
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It's still a very messy solution. The ideal solution would be for the Legislative branch to perform its constitutional duty and investigate and impeach. Republicans in Congress are to blame for this situation for refusing to check the power of the Executive.
 
IMO since the 25th amendment is a two step process where the second step addresses the situation that the President is capable of stating his disagreement with the decision that it certainly covers situations other than complete physical incapacitation. I think it's anything you can get 2/3 of Congress to agree on.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
The 25th Amendment doesn't use the word "incapacity" at all.
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The article 2 language is interesting in that it states:


In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
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So, in the case of:
  • the Removal of the President from Office,
  • or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office

Sounds like the framers provided a lot of leeway for getting a thoroughly rotten presidential apple out.

Funny that Deep Lodestar calls following the constitution a potential "constitutional crisis."
 
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Belz... said:
I did before I responded.

They were terminating the deal and were open to another.
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A six month expiration date was set on the current trade agreement, and being a dick about it is just Trump's butthole way of "negotiating".
 
d4m10n said:
It is your contention that the U.S. did in fact set a date for terminating the trade agreement at issue here?

ETA: If so, when?
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I'm saying it's possible.

eta: My exact words on the last page were:
It was intended to just be a threat to get SK to the negotiating table to get a better trade agreement. He might have signed an almost identical one at a later date.
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kellyb said:
Did you read the swiped letter? It was intended to just be a threat to get SK to the negotiating table to get a better trade agreement. He might have signed an almost identical one at a later date.
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It makes one wonder if sneaking papers off Trump's desk isn't really a matter of infighting between different staff members: One faction thinks X, believes there's a consensus, while someone else believes Y and instead of speaking up, steals the paper off the desk.

Or another version, Trump meets with one group or individual and they decide to do X, then Trump meets with another group or individual and he agrees Y is a good plan. Instead of the two groups getting together they both put papers on Trump's desk with the second to arrive slipping the first paper off the desk while adding theirs to the pile.
 
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kellyb said:
I'm saying it's possible.
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Of course it is possible that Trump ordered a withdrawal from the agreement and then forgot that he had so ordered, because of mental incapacity, in which case the 25th Amendment may well apply.

It is at least as possible that an overeager staffer was treading onto Gary Cohn's turf, drafting termination memos which had no business ending up on the Resolute desk.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It makes one wonder if sneaking papers off Trump's desk isn't really a matter of infighting between different staff members: One faction thinks X, believes there's a consensus, while someone else believes Y and instead of speaking up, steals the paper off the desk.

Or another version, Trump meets with one group or individual and they decide to do X, then Trump meets with another group or individual and he agrees Y is a good plan. Instead of the two groups getting together they both put papers on Trump's desk with the second to arrive slipping the first paper off the desk while adding theirs to the pile.
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It requires a certain suspension of disbelief to think something like that is not going on. Stuff like "trade protectionism" is genuinely controversial for economic reasons alone, so I doubt there's ideological unity on the matter among these officials. Factor in stuff like "we risk losing this really important military base, and the president is way too friendly with the loony nuclear dictator to the north" and it's probably total pandemonium up in there.
 
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