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NY Times editorial bombshell

I can easily see how a deeply moral person would view that patriotism and commitment to the authentic Constitutional form of government demand that they resist Trump's actions when these actions violate his oath of office and/or are obviously extremely dangerous to the United States. Particularly when they find themselves far from alone among their colleagues in their concerns. And I for one am extremely grateful for these people and I see them as patriots. The easy thing is to go along quietly. The brave thing is to do the right thing.

Resigning and going public is the right thing.

Inside the person can still work to prevent disaster; once resigned they are likely to be replaced by a yes-man lackey and then what?

Now we're back to the "Only we can control him properly" defense of this.

That's awfully convenient for getting the rightwing-extremist SCOTUS judges and demonstrating your party over country loyalty.
 
They could follow their oath of office if possible (for example, if assisting the president when requested and defending the constitution were not in opposition.)
That's the only third option.
As I read the op-ed, there is no admission than any oaths of office have been violated.

Meanwhile, the White House in January simply blew off a congressional deadline to impose new Russia sanctions as required in a July 2017 bill that passed 98-2 in the Senate and 419-3 in the House.

Of course there's the argument that "2 wrongs don't make a right," but sometimes actually it does work out that one wrong mitigates the impact of the other wrong.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about how sanctions work to understand exactly why the WH had the discretion to ignore Congress on this issue, but it's possible Trump just worked out, correctly, that Congress wasn't going to do jack**** if he ignored the legislation because they were a bunch of wimps.

Jim Mattis (ETA: reportedly) decided not to launch an offensive to kill Assad even though that's what Trump wanted. Did he betray his oath of office? I imagine he just said "Yes Sir" to Trump, then gave the president 3 scenarios, none of which involved assassinating Assad. This is how power works in actuality, not how it works in the idealized civics lessons we got in grade school or whenever.

The op-ed's main function, IMO, was to signal that Woodward's book essentially got things right. Otherwise it was virtually content-free. Vowing to slow down hasty and ill-considered decisions doesn't in itself automatically mean that anyone is betraying an oath. It could mean just double- and triple-teaming the president, buying time, finding a plausible excuse to delay a memo's progress through the pipeline, keeping an email exchange going in a way that obscures who exactly is supposed to make the next move. IOW passing the buck.

I think it's quite possible that the op-ed was at least loosely coordinated with the release of Bob Woodward's book. I had also sensed for some time that McCain's death was going to promote at least the appearance of soul-searching and bipartisanship. On his end McCain milked his passing for all it was worth. He knew he was going to have an impressive funeral along with all that lying in state and flag-draped coffins and widow weeping on his casket. I imagine he got a kick out of imagining the results.

IMO he knew at the end that he too was complicit in enabling Trump. He doesn't get off scot-free either.
 
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We aren't at that point, right? But he's advocating it now, in case you haven't been paying attention.

Sure, but Trump is such a loose cannon it seems like things could move to that point very quickly. Thinking about it ahead of time makes sense.

When do you think violence would be justified?
 
Resigning and going public is the right thing.



Now we're back to the "Only we can control him properly" defense of this.

That's awfully convenient for getting the rightwing-extremist SCOTUS judges and demonstrating your party over country loyalty.
Yes, it is distressingly convenient. Republicans have seized so much power that they really expect the U.S. to be grateful that it's getting off easy by only leaving us a packed Supreme Court, vs. a world war. I get why this is so galling to people. But I keep failing to imagine any way that resigning and going public is going to result in a less-packed Supreme Court. It's not going to restore tax cuts. It's not going to reverse the damage that has been done to the extremely flawed Affordable Care Act, which at least on paper created universal health care.

Being all noble and resigning and coming clean - it sounds fine in theory; in practice I'm afraid all it would do is provide another focal point for hatred with the help of all the sockpuppets Russian money can buy.

I think there is a strategy in play. The op-ed was just one piece and any day now Lodestar might fall on his or her sword, having completed its part in advancing a campaign to contain Trump's power.
 
I think there is a strategy in play. The op-ed was just one piece and any day now Lodestar might fall on his or her sword, having completed its part in advancing a campaign to contain Trump's power.

Okay, but this is awfully similar to q-anon-theory, though. LOL

I think "the establishment" and GOP neocons are just winging it. Can't really blame them for that.

But I'm not going to "trust the plan".
 
So if trump orders his deputies to shoot themselves in the head, they are required to comply?

That won't fall under "duties of office".

Seriously, look up the various "duties of office" for a few admin positions.
 
Sure, but Trump is such a loose cannon it seems like things could move to that point very quickly.

No, it could not. This is delusional paranoia.

When do you think violence would be justified?

If the state was killing political opponents for mere political opposition, that could qualify.
 
About the undisclosed source(s) being unaccountable: I think a lot of people are worried that Trump is unaccountable which for some is the bigger fear.

On paper, Trump is accountable. But with Congress doing everything it can to protect him, including confirming SC justices who Trump thinks will also protect him, the checks and balance calculus look pretty dismal. For now, anyway.

Yes, both are unaccountable. And still some people seem fine with this. I find that odd.
 

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