Trump and NFL boycott

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Trump has commented on Nike

"Just like the NFL, whose ratings have gone WAY DOWN, Nike is getting absolutely killed with anger and boycotts. I wonder if they had any idea that it would be this way? As far as the NFL is concerned, I just find it hard to watch, and always will, until they stand for the FLAG!"

Hmmm.... he didn't post the phrase "absolutely killed" in all caps, so I'm not convinced.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Please don't play that game with me. There's no possible answer to "what does this flag mean to you?" that doesn't lead right back to slavery and to the terrible conflict that it led to.

If you think otherwise, try me.

It was about money. If slavery was not profitable, there isnt much that they would have defended the institution. People don't rob banks because it is about the banks. It is about the money. It would only be about slavery if they would have went to war if no slaves lived in the south.

 

[Imhotep]

It was about money. If slavery was not profitable, there isnt much that they would have defended the institution. People don't rob banks because it is about the banks. It is about the money. It would only be about slavery if they would have went to war if no slaves lived in the south.

Well, ultimately, every conflict in history is about money (resources). That would make for a boring history book though, maybe it's better to be more specific?

 

[BobTheCoward]

Well, ultimately, every conflict in history is about money (resources). That would make for a boring history book though, maybe it's better to be more specific?

Correct. A different word than "about" should be used....plot. I have had this argument before. Blade Runner is about what makes us human. The plot is a guy fights replicants.

 

[acbytesla]

State's rights. Which of course leads back to the causes of the civil war, which leads to slavery.

No. Slavery led to the argument for 'state's rights'. Not the other way around. It's a way that people can say it's about a principle and not about the pecuniary benefits of slavery.

 

[Imhotep]

No. Slavery led to the argument for 'state's rights'. Not the other way around. It's a way that people can say it's about a principle and not about the pecuniary benefits of slavery.

Okay then.

I guess I was trying to put myself in the shoes of someone that waves the confederate flag around.

To them it's about state's rights.

I don't wish to defend that POV however.

 

[Mumbles]

No. Slavery led to the argument for 'state's rights'. Not the other way around. It's a way that people can say it's about a principle and not about the pecuniary benefits of slavery.

It was never anything more than a flimsy excuse, even when Calhoun was raging about it. Southern states were happy to demand the return of runaway slaves, and to enter northern states and enslave free black people. And of course, it was revived to defend Jim Crow laws. Tying it to the Confederate Battle flag of Lee (who also enslaved free black people in northern states) is just giving up your motivations entirely.

 

[Stacyhs]

I actually don't think so.

There is this silly reverence that some American's have for the flag and anthem. I treat the presentation of the colors respectfully, but this has turned into a bizarre fetish, not a principled action. I'm personally embarrassed by how ignorant most Americans are of the Constitution, the Declaration and the really great things about our government.

So many are oblivious of these things but they 'know' to respect the flag and the anthem. They've been taught that 'people' supposedly died defending a piece of cloth.

But I am sorry, if you got killed protecting the cloth and not the ideals, you simply were seeking a Darwin Award not protecting America.

I've always found it odd that the same people who are uber-flag waving-don't disrespect the flag patriots have no problem wearing that flag as underwear, T-shirts, shorts, and bathing suits.

 

[acbytesla]

Okay then.

I guess I was trying to put myself in the shoes of someone that waves the confederate flag around.

To them it's about state's rights.
I don't wish to defend that POV however.

With all due respect I don't believe that for a second.

The guy with the pickup was in Oregon! One of the bluest most liberal states in the country. Sure, this gun toting, bible thumping red neck Trump supporter was displaying a confederate flag because he was a proponent of 'state's right's.

 

[Imhotep]

With all due respect I don't believe that for a second.

The guy with the pickup was in Oregon! One of the bluest most liberal states in the country. Sure, this gun toting, bible thumping red neck Trump supporter was displaying a confederate flag because he was a proponent of 'state's right's.

I didn't know we were talking about a specific person, that's my fault for jumping in without reading the whole thread.

Also, don't discount people's ability to fool themselves.

 

[acbytesla]

I've always found it odd that the same people who are uber-flag waving-don't disrespect the flag patriots have no problem wearing that flag as underwear, T-shirts, shorts, and bathing suits.

Weird. You wouldn't see the guys at the American Legion do that. They really treat the flag in a very specific way.

When I was in High School I spoke at the American Legion Hall so they would sponsor me to Boys State and Boys Nation. The flag was a big deal to them and I gave a speech against a Constitutional Amendment to protect it. This was in the 1970s right after Vietnam. I was so proud of that speech and their reaction to it.

 

[acbytesla]

I didn't know we were talking about a specific person, that's my fault for jumping in without reading the whole thread.

Also, don't discount people's ability to fool themselves.

You should jump in. And I wasn't speaking about a specific person and yet I was.

I do think people can fool themselves.

But in this case, I don't believe hardly any of these people waving the Confederate flag around are doing it because they believe in 'state's right's'. I don't think they really want to bring back slavery or even the Jim Crow laws either. I think racism plays a part, but I think with many it's a desperate pushback against a modern world that they feel is encroaching on their way of life. The flag is a big middle finger to city folk and the inevitable change.

 

[Imhotep]

You should jump in. And I wasn't speaking about a specific person and yet I was.

I do think people can fool themselves.

But in this case, I don't believe hardly any of these people waving the Confederate flag around are doing it because they believe in 'state's right's'. I don't think they really want to bring back slavery or even the Jim Crow laws either. I think racism plays a part, but I think with many it's a desperate pushback against a modern world that they feel is encroaching on their way of life. The flag is a big middle finger to city folk and the inevitable change.

That's an excellent summary and one that I agree with completely. It's a petty use for a flag to be sure, I guess it's like it's been reduced to a bumper sticker... in some cases literally.

 

[LSSBB]

It was never anything more than a flimsy excuse, even when Calhoun was raging about it. Southern states were happy to demand the return of runaway slaves, and to enter northern states and enslave free black people. And of course, it was revived to defend Jim Crow laws. Tying it to the Confederate Battle flag of Lee (who also enslaved free black people in northern states) is just giving up your motivations entirely.

Great point, making a note of that.

 

[Belz...]

It was about money.

 

[Belz...]

I don't believe hardly any of these people waving the Confederate flag around are doing it because they believe in 'state's right's'.

People believe in states rights when that rights suits them, and not when it doesn't.

 

[jimbob]

It was about money.

I'm sure the ability to indulge in a bit of state-approved rape and sadism was also quite attractive.

 

[Imhotep]

People believe in states rights when that rights suits them, and not when it doesn't.

That's it. I knew I was on to something.

 

[acbytesla]

That's an excellent summary and one that I agree with completely. It's a petty use for a flag to be sure, I guess it's like it's been reduced to a bumper sticker... in some cases literally.

YES!
YES!
YES!

That or a tweet...

from a twit.

 

[acbytesla]

People believe in states rights when that rights suits them, and not when it doesn't.

They have no problem pushing back on California's environmental laws or the Net Neutrality bill making its way through California and other states.