2018 mid-term election

Republican leaders have seized on the arrest of an immigrant accused of murdering a young woman as they seek to return border security to the top of the political agenda and pivot away from Donald Trump’s legal troubles in the wake of the Manafort and Cohen cases.

Cristhian Bahena Rivera, a 24-year-old from Mexico, was charged with first-degree murder on Tuesday in the death of Mollie Tibbetts, a University of Iowa student who went missing on 18 July.

The gruesome killing induced widespread horror, shocked the midwest and was featured in the national news – but it also prompted an elevated level of attention and outrage from conservative politicians, including the president.
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...tts-murder-case-republicans-trump-immigration


I suspect Republicans will be trying to make Christian Rivers the new Willie Horton.
 
Brainster said:
Beto O'Rourke stands, err, kneels with the NFL players refusing to stand for the national anthem. It's a home run, err touchdown with Ellen Degeneres and Kevin Bacon, but how will it play in Plano?
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Pretty well among the people I've talked to. Even Trump supporters are getting sick of this anthem crap getting in the way of their football. You underestimate how important football is to these people.
 
Both the Democrats and the GOP in Arizona seem to have some pretty nasty primary battles going on. From what Ihave been reading, there is a lot of long time interparty dislike involved.
But then feuds are a old Arizona custom...the Earp/Clanton feud and the Pleasant Valley War come to mind.
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
It's relentless labeling and demonizing, instead of addressing arguments and coming up with programs the people will support.
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Yes, some liberals are like that, even if they are a very vocal minority.

Even the worst of the SJW liberals, however, seem more capable of having a discussion than Trump and his disciples, so I'm not sure how you being fed up with PC SJW (and so on, hey, look, labels) makes you want to support Trump. Talking to a Trump supporter you seem to almost always get whataboutisms, whining about "fake news", or insults. Virtually every one I've encountered online has done everything he (it's almost always a he) could do shut down discussion on Trump.

It's not much better to be labelled a PC SJW libtard cuck, from disciples following a leader encouraging his thugs to beat up those who had the gall to dislike him at his rallies, than anything the "SJW"s themselves can come up with. If people wanted "Programs people would support" they wouldn't vote for an idiot promising an 80 foot wall along the Mexican border and the deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants.

Draining the swamp requires a politician who isn't himself a shamelessly corrupt crook. Fighting polarisation and hostility requires a politician who actually wants these things improved upon, and who is capable of leading by example.

Almost any US politician seems to be a far better choice in all of these categories the than the orange manchild currently in the Oval Office.
 
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Dr. Keith said:
Pretty well among the people I've talked to. Even Trump supporters are getting sick of this anthem crap getting in the way of their football. You underestimate how important football is to these people.
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Yep! Donnie Johnny let Sunday go by, even in desperate need of some distraction, with nary a dog whistle.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Yes, some liberals are like that, even if they are a very vocal minority.

Even the worst of the SJW liberals, however, seem more capable of having a discussion than Trump and his disciples, so I'm not sure how you being fed up with PC SJW (and so on, hey, look, labels) makes you want to support Trump. Talking to a Trump supporter you seem to almost always get whataboutisms, whining about "fake news", or insults. Virtually every one I've encountered online has done everything he (it's almost always a he) could do shut down discussion on Trump.

It's not much better to be labelled a PC SJW libtard cuck, from disciples following a leader encouraging his thugs to beat up those who had the gall to dislike him at his rallies, than anything the "SJW"s themselves can come up with. If people wanted "Programs people would support" they wouldn't vote for an idiot promising an 80 foot wall along the Mexican border and the deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants.

Draining the swamp requires a politician who isn't himself a shamelessly corrupt crook. Fighting polarisation and hostility requires a politician who actually wants these things improved upon, and who is capable of leading by example.

Almost any US politician seems to be a far better choice in all of these categories the than the orange manchild currently in the Oval Office.
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It's amusing that ABP never accuses Trump of "relentless labeling and demonizing" only Trump's opponents.......
 
Hopefully we will hear little more about Sheriff Joe and Chemtrails Kelli after tonight in Arizona.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Trump supporter
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A label. Again. You can't agree with him on some things and disagree on others. You are either a Trump Supporter or not.

As soon as you can pull out that label "Trump Supporter" then they are sub-human. I object to this. It is not reason.

The largest group of voters are independents. But even among Republicans there is no cult of personality. The establishment republicans hate him.

To take your argument seriously, I have to believe in this classification of people into a Cult of Personality status. I disagree. Certainly, there are some people who would still love Trump if he sodomized Mother Theresa's corpse on stage. Like .0000000001% of the population. One guy in all of New York City.

Logically, you are going to have people who agree with border protection for example, surveys show a lot of support for that. So there is fertile ground for calling someone "Trump Supporter" if he agrees with Trump on something regarding border security.

It isn't an argument. It is a label. The purpose of the label is to demonize. Demonizing people didn't work in the election of 2016. It did not work in the post-election "resistance". It will not work in the midterms.

you seem to almost always get whataboutisms, whining about "fake news", or insults. Virtually every one I've encountered online has done everything he (it's almost always a he) could do shut down discussion on Trump.

It's not much better to be labelled a PC SJW libtard cuck, from disciples following a leader encouraging his thugs to beat up those who had the gall to dislike him at his rallies, than anything the "SJW"s themselves can come up with. If people wanted "Programs people would support" they wouldn't vote for an idiot promising an 80 foot wall along the Mexican border and the deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants.

Draining the swamp requires a politician who isn't himself a shamelessly corrupt crook. Fighting polarisation and hostility requires a politician who actually wants these things improved upon, and who is capable of leading by example.

Almost any US politician seems to be a far better choice in all of these categories the than the orange manchild currently in the Oval Office.
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That's a pretty long ad hom, the very thing I keep saying is a losing strategy for the midterms.

You are talking to me, not "Trump Supporters", spewing all this vile about how horrible being a "Trump Supporter" is. Trump is an idiot, racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic Hilter and you are a cannibal of newborn babies if you agree with him on the sun coming up in the East.

It isn't working. Nor is the censorship. Nor will violence.

Will it continue to ratchet up as it comes down to the wire? With Trump doing one rally after another and the democrats screeching labels in ever more shrill but fatuous manner?

Geez, way to snatch defeat from victory in what should normally be a cake-walk just being the midterm opposition party.
 
Belz... said:
Wow, Trump is completely mad.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/28/donald-trump-midterms-private-meeting-church-antifa
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Apparently someone drew circles and arrows around the data in "the spreadsheet" that's making the rounds in the GOP caucuses. Purportedly there are over a hundred investigations into the GOP and Trump that can/will be launched if the GOP loses control of the House. Topmost, of course, in Trump's little brain is that a Democratic House is going to put a Democrat in Devin Nunes chair. Anyone from Trump's gardeners to his dead parents will probably get a crackerjack committee investigating them.

Meanwhile, polls are closed in Florida and there are no surprises. The favorites (poll leaders) took all the nominations. Trump is two for two, backing the favorites in FL like a "bridge jumper". I'm not sure he realizes it's a primary; he'll probably tweet out the results as how Republicans won in all the Republican primaries!

A couple of hours before anything comes in from Arizona. Moderates face the "let's vote for the least crazy of the three - but hey, that's pretty hard to figure out" conundrum. Figure McSally to win, but I can still hope for a statewide brain aneurysm and a Joe Arpaio win, can't I?
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
That's a pretty long ad hom, the very thing I keep saying is a losing strategy for the midterms.

You are talking to me, not "Trump Supporters", spewing all this vile about how horrible being a "Trump Supporter" is. Trump is an idiot, racist, sexist, homophobic, islamophobic Hilter and you are a cannibal of newborn babies if you agree with him on the sun coming up in the East.

It isn't working. Nor is the censorship. Nor will violence.

Will it continue to ratchet up as it comes down to the wire? With Trump doing one rally after another and the democrats screeching labels in ever more shrill but fatuous manner?

Geez, way to snatch defeat from victory in what should normally be a cake-walk just being the midterm opposition party.
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I doubt I have ever witnessed a worse analysis of the politics of the mid term elections. The Republicans shouldn't be in danger of losing either house considering that consumer confidence is very high.

But they are and the reason is Trump. The nut job xenophobes who think building a wall will protect them from the immigrant boogey man may still vote for Trump and the slate Republican candidates who weakly refuse to provide oversight to Trump's excesses. But beyond them and the racists, the party might be in trouble.

College educated normally solid Republican voters particularly women present a huge problem for Republican candidates. They have had it with Trump. If they see that a vote for the local GOP congressman as a vote for Trump, then the GOP will be in for probably a rough night in November.
 
Probably the best lense to understand Trump's labeling is through someone like Scott Adams.

Adams is an award-winning and highly successful cartoonist who authored a book called "Winning Bigly: Persuasion in a world where facts don't matter".

Because he has explained Trump's success in persuasion, he is a loathesome Trump Supporter and his insights are invalid I suppose. Nevertheless, Adams points out how effective Trump's labeling has been in contrast to the abject failure of his opponents.

The overuse of "racist, sexist, homophobe, islamaphobe, idiot, Hitler", etc. has rendered these terms meaningless. Ineffective. It's a great big *yawn* to everyone now. It just makes you look ridiculous.

Labeling is not an argument. Not for Trump. Not for any Democrat. Not for anyone. If logic and reason are our standards. So I am on a skeptic board. So much for me.

Adams says those are not the standards of the electorate. Trump is a lot more effective not just with labels but persuasion in general. He has a genius that way.

Were I Adams, I would be arguing for effective labeling by the Democrats. But it would need a ring of truth to it in order to be effective.

So for example, re-approachment with Labor would grant a much better ring of truth in calling Trump the tool of Capital. I am arguing for re-approachment with Labor for it's own sake, not as a marketing gimmick.
 
I have heard Scott Adams defend his theory for about 3 hours worth of interviews and i’m not buying it.

I don’t think he’s a loathsome Trump supporter or whatever.
 
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AlaskaBushPilot said:
Probably the best lense to understand Trump's labeling is through someone like Scott Adams.

Adams is an award-winning and highly successful cartoonist who authored a book called "Winning Bigly: Persuasion in a world where facts don't matter".

Because he has explained Trump's success in persuasion, he is a loathesome Trump Supporter and his insights are invalid I suppose. Nevertheless, Adams points out how effective Trump's labeling has been in contrast to the abject failure of his opponents.

The overuse of "racist, sexist, homophobe, islamaphobe, idiot, Hitler", etc. has rendered these terms meaningless. Ineffective. It's a great big *yawn* to everyone now. It just makes you look ridiculous.

Labeling is not an argument. Not for Trump. Not for any Democrat. Not for anyone. If logic and reason are our standards. So I am on a skeptic board. So much for me.

Adams says those are not the standards of the electorate. Trump is a lot more effective not just with labels but persuasion in general. He has a genius that way.

Were I Adams, I would be arguing for effective labeling by the Democrats. But it would need a ring of truth to it in order to be effective.

So for example, re-approachment with Labor would grant a much better ring of truth in calling Trump the tool of Capital. I am arguing for re-approachment with Labor for it's own sake, not as a marketing gimmick.
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NONSENSE!

What makes you think that Adams perspective is any more valid then yours or mine?

I get very well the appeal Trump has to some voters. The nutjobs who don't care that Trump is a sexist racist misogynist who has the moral compass of cretin support him simply because they see minorities and women as threats to their cherished superior position. They want to turn back the clock. Trump's slogan of Make America Great Again alludes to that time. Not so much to Jim Crow and separate drinking fountains but back to the time when being a white male meant unquestioned authority.
 
acbytesla said:
College educated normally solid Republican voters particularly women present a huge problem for Republican candidates. They have had it with Trump. If they see that a vote for the local GOP congressman as a vote for Trump, then the GOP will be in for probably a rough night in November.
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A heavy pro-Trump Republican (Ron DeSantis) just won in Florida in their primary for Governor. Trump did a rally in Tampa for this guy and he did ads showing him reading Trump's "Art of the Deal" and having his daughter say "Make America Great Again."

So if if they've "had it with Trump" then why this Florida win? It isn't just Florida, this is just the most current real time data.

Coming into the last election the establishment media had so many of you convinced Trump had no chance of winning and me saying over and over again that the strategy was a failure, Trump was winning.

This is exactly the outcome I just spoke to: Trump doing a rally in a state and the pertinent primary going to Trump's candidate.

So for being the worst kind of analysis you have ever seen, it is strange how my predicted outcome won and your predicted outcome lost, isn't it?
 
acbytesla said:
NONSENSE!
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That isn't an argument. You don't get declatory judgment with an exclamation mark.

A rhetorical question is not an argument:

What makes you think that Adams perspective is any more valid then yours or mine?
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This is not an argument against his position now, is it. Were you to have an argument, you would use it.

So right back to calling me names:

I get very well the appeal Trump has to some voters. The nutjobs who don't care that Trump is a sexist racist misogynist who has the moral compass of cretin support him simply because they see minorities and women as threats to their cherished superior position. They want to turn back the clock. Trump's slogan of Make America Great Again alludes to that time. Not so much to Jim Crow and separate drinking fountains but back to the time when being a white male meant unquestioned authority.
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We just can't have a post without racist, sexist, misogynist, nutjob, Jim Crow Slavery, etc. etc.

It isn't just ineffective, it is increasingly counterproductive. One of the things I see happening is that decent people withdraw from interaction with the abusive.

So the abusive start thinking they represent a much greater force than their numbers. I check in here every now and then to see if the strategy has changed, that is if it has worked its way down to the rank and file, and I see it has not.

So I marvel at it.
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
A heavy pro-Trump Republican (Ron DeSantis) just won in Florida in their primary for Governor. Trump did a rally in Tampa for this guy and he did ads showing him reading Trump's "Art of the Deal" and having his daughter say "Make America Great Again."

So if if they've "had it with Trump" then why this Florida win? It isn't just Florida, this is just the most current real time data.

Coming into the last election the establishment media had so many of you convinced Trump had no chance of winning and me saying over and over again that the strategy was a failure, Trump was winning.

This is exactly the outcome I just spoke to: Trump doing a rally in a state and the pertinent primary going to Trump's candidate.

So for being the worst kind of analysis you have ever seen, it is strange how my predicted outcome won and your predicted outcome lost, isn't it?
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You don't get it do you? If you think that doing well in a primary means doing well in a general election, you are sadly mistaken. I saw the tea party dominate the Republican primaries in my state a few years ago. Establishment Republicans got killed in the primaries. The final result was the GOP got killed in November.

I want all the Trumpistas to win. It makes it much much harder to run away in November. One of us will be eating crow. I don't think it will be me.
 
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