Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2

[acbytesla]

I think you're oversimplifying here.

Thinking critically is really hard. Human beings are designed to be lousy at it, it takes effort and knowledge and awareness and at least some level of intelligence and, crucially, education.

On top of that there are some of the most expensively educated minds in the world all using every trick they can find, old and new, to make their targets utterly fail to think critically and cause them to think how they're told.

It's hard to fight that when one has at least some knowledge and education. It's almost impossible to fight that without a reasonable education and an understanding of how poor the human brain is at thinking properly.

Perhaps. While, I do believe your points are valid, I also believe most people are capable.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

GOP Quick To Point Out That Michael Cohen Was Merely RNC’s Deputy Finance Chairman

Touché.

 

[acbytesla]

As I read in a comment section:

If this is a Witch Hunt, Mueller found Hogwarts.

I like that.

 

[alfaniner]

He's already perjured himself back in 2013 about his knowledge of Felix Sater. If perjury is an impeachable offence, he should be impeached.

Isn't there a different standard for crimes committed before becoming President and crimes committed after? I think we'll see the results of both.

 

[acbytesla]

Agreed, playing hide-the-cigar with Monica was not an impeachable offence. However, lying about it while under oath before a grand jury was.

Conversely, a campaign finance violation is also not an impeachable offence. And President Trump won't foolishly walk into a perjury trap. Ain't gonna happen!

I am pretty sure in Trump's lawyer's mind any situation where Trump is required to take an oath would be a perjury trap.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Yes, I love this idea of "perjury trap". Know how to avoid being caught in a perjury trap? Don't like under oath. Most people manage that by not lying while under oath. It seems that most believe that the only way Trump could avoid it is by not taking an oath.

 

[The Big Dog]

You can't plead deal by pleading guilty to a crime you didn't commit. That aside I've not seen any mention of a plea deal yet?

Of course you can and Cohen's plea deal is exactly what we have been discussing

 

[The Big Dog]

Yes, I love this idea of "perjury trap". Know how to avoid being caught in a perjury trap? Don't like under oath. Most people manage that by not lying while under oath. It seems that most believe that the only way Trump could avoid it is by not taking an oath.

A very popular response to concerns about a perjury trap is the response "just tell the truth!" This is rainbows-and-unicorns fantasy.

 

[Cain]

Crime isn't crime.

 

[acbytesla]

a very popular response to concerns about a perjury trap is the response "just tell the truth!" This is rainbows-and-unicorns fantasy.

My GOD!! I can't believe this. I agree with The Big Dog...and hell hasn't froze over!

For the average person, it's ******* easy. For Donald Trump telling the truth is a rainbows-and-unicorns fantasy.

 

[Arcade22]

A very popular response to concerns about a perjury trap is the response "just tell the truth!" This is rainbows-and-unicorns fantasy.

Yes when you are dealing with a pathological liar who can't keep himself from lying every minute or so. I guess Trumps only saving grace is that he might be able to convince the jury that he's simply too insane and demented to be able to commit perjury.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

A very popular response to concerns about a perjury trap is the response "just tell the truth!" This is rainbows-and-unicorns fantasy.

I stand corrected. Thank you.

That does rather raise the question of why Trump's been saying for the last year that he will testify under oath.

 

[blutoski]

I stand corrected. Thank you.

That does rather raise the question of why Trump's been saying for the last year that he will testify under oath.

We can park that in the same lot as his promise to publish his tax returns when the audit is completed.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

While you're replying to my posts, The Big Dog, any chance you could reply to #3408?

 

[pgwenthold]

Rule of so.

But to address TBD's question, I have to ask, why wouldn't you use Cohen as a lawyer?

As far as I can see, Cohen performed admirably as a lawyer.

Remember, the job of a lawyer is to work on behalf of the client. Michael Cohen was willing to violate election laws in accordance with his client's wishes, and tried to do it in a way that made it look as benign as possible.

For some reason, when Trumpets are talking about their problems with Cohen, they are not referring to "He did not refuse to do illegal things on behalf of his client."

Yeah, Cohen has turned around and stabbed in the back, but then again, what else can he do? Another responsibility he has as a lawyer is to work for the truth, and so that's what he's doing.

Trump told him to violate the law, and so that's what he did. And now, when asked about it, he's telling the prosecutor that is what he did.

The problem is not the lawyer. He seems to be doing what he can to serve his client. The problem is with the client.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

We can park that in the same lot as his promise to publish his tax returns when the audit is completed.

Oh, I never thought he would. It's just that if it's such a bad idea, I wonder why he's been pushing it? Is he ignorant on the subject, or is he trying to make people think he is?

 

[Armitage72]

Trump says that getting defendants to testify against their co-conspirators should be illegal. What a surprise.

"It's called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal," Trump said in the interview, adding he's witnessed similar scenarios over his decades in public life. "I know all about flipping, 30, 40 years I have been watching flippers. Everything is wonderful and then they get 10 years in jail and they flip on whoever the next highest one is or as high as you can go."

 

[pgwenthold]

Trump says that getting defendants to testify against their co-conspirators should be illegal. What a surprise.

I read that statement, and my question is, yes, and? You talk as if it is a bad thing?

Unless he really does think it is the mob, and you don't rat out the family.

Meanwhile, not in the underworld of organized crime, people who are guilty of crimes admitting their crimes and telling law enforcement who was all involved is considered a noble gesture of honesty (and atonement).

It's not about loyalty.

 

[Ziggurat]

Money starts out as plain old money and becomes campaign funds when it is used to support a political campaign, or not?

I already explained how if the money had been funneled through the campaign and declared as a campaign expenditure, that would have been considered an illegal campaign expenditure for personal use.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

That Twitter 'splainer is just more perpetuation of the "political witch hunt" and "everyone does it" narratives.

Unless you're perfect, and very lucky, and dealing with purely ethical and knowledgeable government agents.

Nobody's perfect, so why even have interviews or subpeonas?

The "just tell the truth" response assumes, without basis, that the purpose of interviews is to gather information. In fact, using interviews to create criminal liability is a primary feature of federal criminal investigation.

Not an occasional example of malfeasance or overreach, mind you. Criminal investigations are totally just meant to trick people into lying!

Just tell the truth" presumes trustworthy questioners with pure motives and enlightened, near-perfect witnesses. Neither assumption is warranted.

Anything less than angelic perfection invalidates everything. This, of course, in the same rant where he laments that imperfect witnesses should be given a pass for being human...