Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2

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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
How is anybody discussing anything other than this?

We now have Devin Nunes, on tape, admitting that the actions by the Trump team were illegal, that they need to shut down the Mueller investigation, that Kavanaugh must be confirmed before midterms, and that Rosenstein must be impeached after midterms.
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What is there to discuss? The minute the GOP retains control of congress, they're going to do whatever it takes to shut down any investigation. They've been pretty transparent about their ethical perfidy. The (R) at this point means nothing but "Rotten."

The only news here is that Nunes is still told anything. He's the middle hyena in the Lion King: just smart enough to follow along (with a nudge), but too stupid to know when to shut the hell up.
 
PhantomWolf said:
It's a bit like the difference between hiring a PI to investigate your opponent and later finding that the pictures were taken by a guy with mob connections, and one day getting into your limo and finding a guy with mob connections sitting there with a folder full of photos of you opponent and greetings from his boss.
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That's apt only if you consider Putin to be like a mob boss, and that's just-

oh.

PhantomWolf said:
It's a bit exactly like the difference between hiring a PI to investigate your opponent and later finding that the pictures were taken by a guy with mob connections, and one day getting into your limo and finding a guy with mob connections sitting there with a folder full of photos of you opponent and greetings from his boss.
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ftfy
 
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Upchurch said:
...maaaaaaybe “Russian”.
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They aren't all drinking the borscht. But by their silence, their cowardice, or their complicity, they have each proven their willingness to undermine the institutions put in place to keep this sort of collusion in check, in pursuit of a continuance of their power. They would rather have a Russian administration than a Democratic one.

The GOP majority in the Senate is slim enough that all it would take is one Senator publicly saying they won't vote for **** until the investigation is protected, not taking any backroom deals with McConnell because at this point they ought to know what those are worth, and the whole thing comes crashing down. Just one. But none have. Not the retiring senators who cry themselves to sleep at night at the thought of what their organization has become, not the "moderate" Republicans who are reasonable so long as no one is taking a vote, none of them have been willing to put their money where their mouths are. Even the very best of them has put party over country. So **** em all, says I.
 
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Beelzebuddy said:
What is there to discuss? The minute the GOP retains control of congress, they're going to do whatever it takes to shut down any investigation. They've been pretty transparent about their ethical perfidy. The (R) at this point means nothing but "Rotten."

The only news here is that Nunes is still told anything. He's the middle hyena in the Lion King: just smart enough to follow along (with a nudge), but too stupid to know when to shut the hell up.
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I believe this is true as well. Unless the Democrats score big this fall, the Muller investigation is toast.

The question then becomes, what are you Americans going to do about it? Will you stand by as Congress refuses to allow investigations into a president that openly flaunts the law?

ETA: I am of course talking to patriotic Americans, rather than Russian stooges.
 
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pgwenthold said:
BUT if he did that, he couldn't negotiate anything in return, of course.

You really have to wonder why these Russian agents felt a need to go behind the scenes to give the Trump campaign "dirt" on Clinton, if not to get something in exchange for it?
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Who's to say they haven't already got exactly what the wanted in the first place--POTUS effectively compromised by the appearance of collusion and subsequent investigation?
 
Prometheus said:
Who's to say they haven't already got exactly what the wanted in the first place--POTUS effectively compromised by the appearance of collusion and subsequent investigation?
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Interesting take. Helping (or even appearing to help) Trump was a win-win for Putin no matter what, when you take a step back.
 
Prometheus said:
Who's to say they haven't already got exactly what the wanted in the first place--POTUS effectively compromised by the appearance of collusion and subsequent investigation?
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Which is why the meeting could have been as much of a snooze as Donnie Jr says it was. The Russians knew that the invitation and the fact that it was accepted is pretty damning. There is no real reason to actually provide anything after that.

If chaos is your goal, your tactical options become much more open. You don't have to close the deal, you just have to get them to the negotiating table.
 
acbytesla said:
But here's the problem with your analysis. It ain't $50 from a guy from Finland. It's millions of dollars worth of information from Russia. A meeting to get dirt on a political opponent from foreigners is conspiracy.
The meeting appears to have led to computer crimes and more counts of conspiracy. Then there is the cover up, the obstruction of justice, the perjuries, the lying to Congress.
Right now, there is significantly more crimes committed by Trump and his campaign then there was on Nixon and CREEP in 72.
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I think your timeline is off a bit. The DNC servers were hacked in summer of 2015, Podesta's email mess was in March 2016, the DNC was hit again in early April 2016, and the facebook ads began being purchased in early April 2016. The Trump Tower meeting occurred at the end of April 2016. The computer crimes preceded the meeting.

I agree that the meeting was a breach of protocol, and certainly signals intent... but what millions of dollars worth of information did they receive? It's entirely possible that I missed something, but I was under the impression that no dirt on Clinton materialized. ETA: corrected to say that the people meeting in Trump Tower weren't provided with any dirt on Clinton. It's possible that was a lie, but I'm not aware of any evidence indicating that to be the case.
 
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Dr. Keith said:
Which is why the meeting could have been as much of a snooze as Donnie Jr says it was. The Russians knew that the invitation and the fact that it was accepted is pretty damning. There is no real reason to actually provide anything after that.

If chaos is your goal, your tactical options become much more open. You don't have to close the deal, you just have to get them to the negotiating table.
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Better for Putin is that he still has strong options to play with most paths. Republicans keep Congress and shut down the investigation? Cause even more chaos by leaking very strong evidence of Trump or GOP wrongdoing. Sit back and hope for riots you can strong arm your neighbors during with the world distracted.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I think your timeline is off a bit. The DNC servers were hacked in summer of 2015, Podesta's email mess was in March 2016, the DNC was hit again in early April 2016, and the facebook ads began being purchased in early April 2016. The Trump Tower meeting occurred at the end of April 2016. The computer crimes preceded the meeting.

I agree that the meeting was a breach of protocol, and certainly signals intent... but what millions of dollars worth of information did they receive? It's entirely possible that I missed something, but I was under the impression that no dirt on Clinton materialized.
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Nope, my timeline isn't off. Intelligence reports demonstrates pretty clearly that the number of computer intrusions originating from an identified Russian controlled IP addressed skyrocketed following that meeting. We don't know the value of the information that the meeting produced now do we? If the information was enough to sway the election, then I think it is fair to say it would have been worth millions.
 
It doesn't matter whether or not the Russians delivered anything after the meeting. Whether or not the Trump team got anything out of it, they are still guilty of conspiracy.
 
"Okay, yer honor, maybe I did pick up the dame expectin her ta be a prostitute an not an undercover cop. Okay, my bad, mean culpa amirite? But see here's the thing: I didn't have sex with her, did I? Think about it. Don't that make her not a prostitute, I mean no harm no foul, right?"
 
Prometheus said:
Who's to say they haven't already got exactly what the wanted in the first place--POTUS effectively compromised by the appearance of collusion and subsequent investigation?
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You're getting ahead of yourself. Trump at that point was still considered unlikely to win.

In retrospect everything seems obvious and inevitable. Of course Obama should have sent the Navy Seals in to take out Bin Laden, "even Jimmy Carter makes that call." But it's not that obvious since a lot of could have gone wrong (and Jimmy Carter made some daring moves with bad consequences during his presidency). The Russians were playing a dangerous game. They already hated Clinton, so how's it going to look when it turns out they offered material support to President Clinton's opponent in a surprisingly narrow election? That was always the more likely scenario. Republicans would charge that Democrats stole the election; they'd also probably say Democrats are trying to cover it with some cockamamie nonsense about Russian scheming, and of course Trump would be firing shots from Twitter about how he would've already built a wall, stopped illegal immigration, ended Obamacare, and made peace with the Russians.

Now if you want to say they had compromised Trump in the Tower meeting , so he was forced to along with the rest of their plans, then that's another thing, but... it's going to be slightly inconsistent with claims from Steele that Russia had been cultivating Trump for awhile. Also, Trump probably wasn't even present for the meeting (yes, I've heard of the speakerphone conjecture).

Maybe the vulgar Don Jr. was disappointed he got promises rather than a dossier.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It doesn't matter whether or not the Russians delivered anything after the meeting. Whether or not the Trump team got anything out of it, they are still guilty of conspiracy.
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Conspiracy to do what? Conspiracies are only criminal if they are conspiracies to commit a crime. What's the underlying crime being alleged here?
 
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