Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2

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a_unique_person said:
I'd say he has people that he fears more than going to prison if he talks.
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That's my thought as well. I wonder if the Russian UK poisonings a while back didn't also serve as a message to people like Manafort. But that makes me wonder why the Russians would care about him flipping at all. I mean, Trump is bending over forwards for Putin, but Putin's primary goal is to sow chaos in the West. Bringing Trump down would certainly add to that.

Maybe Putin just wants another two years of servitude out of Trump first. Have his cake and eat it too.
 
Stacyhs said:
But it's less than the rest of his life which could be quite long considering his mother was 82 and his father was 90 when they died.
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To be fair, the question was whether any conservatives care about law and democracy. Clearly some do. LSSBB is one. Jeff Flake, George Will and other Never Trumpers also count.

The GOP in Congress, at least those running for reelection, have mostly signed on with Trump, sadly. So much the worst for the GOP as a party of political principles.
 
LSSBB said:
I'm a conservative and I actually care about democracy and law. So your point is...?
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You can be a conservative and not support Trump. Some do speak out, like Ana Navarro, Flake, Sanford, Kasich, McCain, etc. Sadly, if the polls of Republicans are correct, the large majority do support him. That itself supports that partisanship is more important to them than anything when it comes to politics. So does the fact that most of the Never Trump Republicans put their tails between their legs and rolled over after the election.
 
Stacyhs said:
You can be a conservative and not support Trump. Some do speak out, like Ana Navarro, Flake, Sanford, Kasich, McCain, etc. Sadly, if the polls of Republicans are correct, the large majority do support him. That itself supports that partisanship is more important to them than anything when it comes to politics. So does the fact that most of the Never Trump Republicans put their tails between their legs and rolled over after the election.
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I don't criticize Republicans who choose to resign rather than waste time and money only to be defeated. Life is short and resources are scarce. Resignation is not unprincipled.

Hopefully, the GOP will recover eventually.
 
phiwum said:
To be fair, the question was whether any conservatives care about law and democracy. Clearly some do. LSSBB is one. Jeff Flake, George Will and other Never Trumpers also count.

The GOP in Congress, at least those running for reelection, have mostly signed on with Trump, sadly. So much the worst for the GOP as a party of political principles.
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While I agree with your post, my post had nothing to do with whether conservatives care about law and democracy. It had to do with Manafort possibly hoping for a pardon at his age vs the rest of his life in prison.
 
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acbytesla said:
Of course you do.

I'd say the way Ken Starr operated they might be a mistake. But Mueller has proved to be no-nonsense and by the book contrary to Trump's wild ass daily tweets.
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Yea immagine if the current investigation moved from Russia to the various sexual assaults the president has braged on the record about. Republicans would truely flip.
 
phiwum said:
I don't criticize Republicans who choose to resign rather than waste time and money only to be defeated. Life is short and resources are scarce. Resignation is not unprincipled.

Hopefully, the GOP will recover eventually.
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I never suggested resignation is unprincipled. Nor do I criticize those who choose not to run again for the reasons you stated. What I do criticize is those Republicans who swore never to support Trump and then don't have the courage to speak up now. They've fallen in line because they are scared of Trump and his bullying tactics. At least those that are choosing not to run again are speaking up against Trump during the time they still remain in office.
 
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Stacyhs said:
While I agree with your post, my post had nothing to do with whether conservatives care about law and democracy. It had to do with Manafort possibly hoping for a pardon at his age vs the rest of his life in prison.
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Quite right. I meant to reply to The Animus. Sorry.
 
Stacyhs said:
I never suggested resignation is unprincipled. Nor do I criticize those who choose not to run again for the reasons you stated. What I do criticize is those Republicans who swore never to support Trump and then don't have the courage to speak up now. They've fallen in line because they are scared of Trump and is bullying tactics. At least those that are choosing not to run again are speaking up against Trump during the time they still remain in office.
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No disagreement then. Perhaps I misread you.
 
Stacyhs said:
At least those that are choosing not to run again are speaking up against Trump during the time they still remain in office.
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Speaking against, but not voting against. All it would take is a single GOP senator valuing country over party and the tables would turn, but apparently there aren't any.
 
Upchurch said:
That's my thought as well. I wonder if the Russian UK poisonings a while back didn't also serve as a message to people like Manafort. But that makes me wonder why the Russians would care about him flipping at all. I mean, Trump is bending over forwards for Putin, but Putin's primary goal is to sow chaos in the West. Bringing Trump down would certainly add to that.

Maybe Putin just wants another two years of servitude out of Trump first. Have his cake and eat it too.
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Let's not forget that Manafort's involvement with dodgy Slavs and their money-flows long predates his involvement with Trump. He may worry less about the Kremlin than about people in Brighton Beach. By not flipping on Trump he sends a message to them - "I'm no squealer".
 
Stacyhs said:
You can be a conservative and not support Trump. Some do speak out, like Ana Navarro, Flake, Sanford, Kasich, McCain, etc. Sadly, if the polls of Republicans are correct, the large majority do support him. That itself supports that partisanship is more important to them than anything when it comes to politics. So does the fact that most of the Never Trump Republicans put their tails between their legs and rolled over after the election.
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David Brooks
David Frum
Tom Nichols
Rick Wilson
They are a rare breed but they do exist.
 
timhau said:
True, but they didn't spend six years in a federal prison.

Healthwise, the next six years are also probably the best six years he's got left.
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Manafort not flipping on Trump for immunity in the face of almost certain conviction is odd but he must have his reason(s). And whatever they are, they must be compelling. I highly doubt loyalty to Trump is among them.
 
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