Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

[The Big Dog]

We need to go back. Drejka is abusing the female in the car. She gets out, then McGlockton seeing that may have feared for her, so he pushes Drejka to the ground.

no

 

[Nessie]

no

How do you know?

 

[The Big Dog]

Very clear.

In fact, I like your timeline:

1. the attack had not ended,
2. the attacker was coming in for stomping time,
3. and was stopped only because the gun was drawn,
4. he aimed for center mass,
5. pulled the trigger,

And I think once we all agree that you timeline is in the right order, even if we disagree about whether the fictional "stomping time" was coming, then I think we can all agree it was a bad shooting.

Thanks again.

1. the attack had not ended,
2. the attacker was coming in for stomping time,
3. and was stopped only because the gun was drawn, he aimed for center mass, pulled the trigger.

 

[Nessie]

1. the attack had not ended,
2. the attacker was coming in for stomping time...

How do you know that?

 

[Babbylonian]

We need to go back. Drejka is abusing the female in the car. She gets out, then McGlockton seeing that may have feared for her, so he pushes Drejka to the ground.

The only fear that matters is that of a person with a gun. Everyone else is asking to be shot.

 

[Nessie]

I do not see why Drejka gets to assume he is going to be the subject of a deadly attack after being pushed to the ground, but McGlockton does not get to assume his partner is about to be attacked after she is confronted by an angry male and gets out of her car.

 

[Dr. Keith]

1. the attack had not ended,
2. the attacker was coming in for stomping time,

How do you know that?

Doesn't matter because:

3. and was stopped only because the gun was drawn, he aimed for center mass, pulled the trigger.

This makes it clear that it was an illegal shooting. Attack stopped, then he aimed and then he shot. That's not standing your ground or self defense. That is murder.

 

[Babbylonian]

I do not see why Drejka gets to assume he is going to be the subject of a deadly attack after being pushed to the ground, but McGlockton does not get to assume his partner is about to be attacked after she is confronted by an angry male and gets out of her car.

I agree. On the other hand, one can argue that shoving someone - even hard - in response to such a fear is at least within the realm of proportionality. Shooting someone in response to a shove - even a hard shove - is not in any way a proportional response.


I also think it's reasonable to think that Drejka felt emboldened to aggressively confront people parking illegally in handicapped spots because he was carrying a gun. It's very possible that in the absence of the weapon he would at most yell at the person and keep moving.

 

[TJM]

I believe I introduced the term schoolyard shove, so a quick clarification:
In mechanics and, I believe, intent, it was a schoolyard or barroom shove. Open hands forcefully struck at chest as a dominance or knock down move. Mc Glocklin walked up to deliver it, and pretty damned slowly. He was no schoolboy, so I'm sure it was hella powerful, but it was no attacking move. Strategically, it makes no sense to push your victim down and away from you.

Your video shows pretty clearly that they are squarelyface to face. This just isn't a blindside. Blindside is the side that you are blind on. Drejka may have been distracted and didn't see the casual strolling approach, but face to face is not a blind side.



Spot on.

I disagree. If McGlockton casually strolled up and shoved him over, then why continue to approach Drekja as he tumbles ass over heels? More likely it was McGlockton‘s momentum the carried him forward because he lunged at him. This wasn’t just a push with his arms, he put his whole body into the hit. I agree with TBD on this point 100%. If anyone really thinks McGlockton was finished with Drekja, all I can do is shake my head and say “c’mon man”.

There was about to be an ass-whoopin.

Fo sho.

 

[The Big Dog]

Doesn't matter because:


This makes it clear that it was an illegal shooting. Attack stopped, then he aimed and then he shot. That's not standing your ground or self defense. That is murder.

“Because.”

Pure self defense, pure stand your ground.

The thing we can all agree with is Captain Blindside would still be alive if he did not attack the victim.

 

[Thermal]

I do not see why Drejka gets to assume he is going to be the subject of a deadly attack after being pushed to the ground, but McGlockton does not get to assume his partner is about to be attacked after she is confronted by an angry male and gets out of her car.

They don't get those rights or privileges. One results in stung pride and a sore butt, and the other results in a funeral. I have no question about who the worse actor is.

 

[Dr. Keith]

“Because.”

Yes, stopped because the gun was drawn.

I think we all agree that there was no further risk of attack after the gun was drawn. We are in agreement.

Pure self defense, pure stand your ground.

Not based on your recap of events. Not even in Texas.

The thing we can all agree with is Captain Blindside would still be alive if he did not attack the victim.

You'll have to address that to someone who thinks that is relevant to the murder

 

[Nessie]

I disagree. If McGlockton casually strolled up and shoved him over, then why continue to approach Drekja as he tumbles ass over heels? More likely it was McGlockton‘s momentum the carried him forward because he lunged at him. This wasn’t just a push with his arms, he put his whole body into the hit. I agree with TBD on this point 100%. If anyone really thinks McGlockton was finished with Drekja, all I can do is shake my head and say “c’mon man”.

There was about to be an ass-whoopin.

Fo sho.

Since Drejka is entitled to kill McGlockton for fear of his life, is McGlockton not also entitled to kill Drejka for fear of his partners life?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I do not see why Drejka gets to assume he is going to be the subject of a deadly attack after being pushed to the ground, but McGlockton does not get to assume his partner is about to be attacked after she is confronted by an angry male and gets out of her car.

First of all, Drejka already was attacked. And, if I understand correctly, SYG doesn't require a "deadly attack".

And why would McGlockton assume his partner is about to be attacked if she get out of the car to confront him?

 

[Thermal]

I disagree. If McGlockton casually strolled up and shoved him over, then why continue to approach Drekja as he tumbles ass over heels? More likely it was McGlockton‘s momentum the carried him forward because he lunged at him. This wasn’t just a push with his arms, he put his whole body into the hit. I agree with TBD on this point 100%. If anyone really thinks McGlockton was finished with Drekja, all I can do is shake my head and say “c’mon man”.

There was about to be an ass-whoopin.

Fo sho.

I agree that it was a no-joke strike/shove. Not playground caliber by any means. Also agreed that it was so hard he bled off a couple steps. But if a stomping was on tap, why not go in while he was down? Instead, he coasted to a stop and shuffled back.

I really think McGlocklin showed him who was boss and it was over, for him. I've seen attackers shove and dive on top of the target but never shove and stand around.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I agree with TBD on this point 100%. If anyone really thinks McGlockton was finished with Drekja, all I can do is shake my head and say “c’mon man”.

There was about to be an ass-whoopin.

I'd say more likely than not, given that McGlockton is the kind of guy who so quickly and unneccesarily escalated to violence. (That is the little I know about him, so going off that)

On the other hand, of course McGlockton would have been prepared for more even if he had no plan on continuing the attack. He may have just been getting ready in case there were a counterattack from Drekja. In other words, ready to continue the fight if needed.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I'd say more likely than not, given that McGlockton is the kind of guy who so quickly and unneccesarily escalated to violence. (That is the little I know about him, so going off that)

On the other hand, of course McGlockton would have been prepared for more even if he had no plan on continuing the attack. He may have just been getting ready in case there were a counterattack from Drekja. In other words, ready to continue the fight if needed.

And the great thing is that it doesn't matter because the video shows that by the time the gun was pulled McGlockton was moving away, not towards Drejka. Whether he was planning to go in for more, preparing for a counter, or assuming his point had been made sufficiently, it doesn't really matter. By the time the gun was drawn the attack was clearly over.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I do not see why Drejka gets to assume he is going to be the subject of a deadly attack after being pushed to the ground, but McGlockton does not get to assume his partner is about to be attacked after she is confronted by an angry male and gets out of her car.

I've believed from the start that neither of them were correct to make such assumptions based on the circumstances. Drejka should be facing charges for the killing but in real life one person being an arse doesn't make the other people angels. This isn't defending Drejka, he was wrong and in the worst way with tragic consequences, but no-one in this story acted well.

 

[The Big Dog]

Since Drejka is entitled to kill McGlockton for fear of his life, is McGlockton not also entitled to kill Drejka for fear of his partners life?

No, that is absurd

 

[Nessie]

The video.

https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article215829280.html

It starts with the car parked in the disabled bay, but there is plenty of parking elsewhere near to the shop.

Then Drejka appears in his vehicle, gets out and walks around the parked car. At 1.27 (in the video timing he approaches the passenger and the argument starts between Jacobs and Drejka. We do not know exactly who is more aggressive or what, but as others appear they all look over to Drejka and the car. At 2.07 the lady who walks out the shop looks over twice. Just after a male gets out his car and keeps on looking as he holds the shop door open for another female (around 2.28).

At 2.45 McGlockton walks out the shop, with the male who held the door reappearing. Did he say something to McGlockton? Is that why McGlockton has come out without any shopping? The other male has also come back out, he clearly wants to see what is going to happen.

At 2.49 McGlockton shoves Drejka to the ground, takes 2 steps towards him as he appears to pull up his waist band and then he stops when the gun is drawn and pointed at him. McGlockton steps back and starts to turn when he is shot.

There is definite reason for McGlockton to think that Jacobs is at risk from Drejka. Drejka has made the first approach, he is not for backing down and McGlockton may have been advised there was a problem by the other male.

This did not just start with the push. It had pretty much ended with the drawing of the gun.