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Merged A Proof of the Existence of God / Did Someone Create the Universe?

I could go on and quoting his book. Could you quote his book to prove your point of view? If you can, I will gladly discuss your quotations with you. Our argument is all about Popper's original works, isn't it.

No, this is not a competition to see who can quote Popper more accurately. Though, as aleCcowaN pointed out in post #820, you're not exactly shining in that field of endeavour either.

Dave
 
Irrelevant -- you are the one applying Popper's doctrine to the question of the existence of God, although at one point I seem to remember you dismissed him as "pseudo-science." As I said, your argument is a Frankenstein's creature of philosophical tidbits from different schools of thought given a semblance of coherence by vigorous gaslighting. You keep dropping the names of famous philosophers, but you don't seem to be able to cogently apply their thinking.

Both my post and the one to which I was responding are defensible summaries of Popper regardless of whether Popper expresses current thinking. You have misunderstood and misrepresented Popper on a number of occasions, and you seem to think this cannot be detected by your critics. In responding to our corrections, you've pivoted away from whether you understand Popper and his ilk to whether the doctrines we're talking about are the current thinking. And then you simply use that to drop further names and further insinuate that your critics are not as smart or well-read as you are.

This is mere posturing, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the proof for the existence of God that you're supposed to be presenting and defending. It seems all your precious time here at the forum is spent nit-picking at irrelevant items you perceive to be grave errors on your critics' part instead of staying on topic. Every time you think you've caught someone in an error, you accuse them of ignorance and/or declare victory. That behavior is not consistent with honest arguments in favor of your proof. It's more consistent with the personalized modus operandi you assure us you have eschewed since Digg.

Apparently you misunderstood my posts. Why would I apply Popper's doctrine to existence of God if I see his writings as garbage? If you believe that the Popper doctrine represents current scientific thinking this is your problem, I am not going to waste your time trying to convince you that is not so. When I presented my proof I had a different goal in mind that doesn't involve bickering with you about a topic that is of no interest to me.
 
As I said before, I respond only to original works of a scientist or a philosopher, not to someone's interpretations of them.

I don't recall you stating that before. Do you have a link?


So far we have for excuses:

1) I don't have enough time to respond to everyone.

2) I only respond to smart people.

and now:

3) I only respond to quotes from scientists and philosophers.
 
And I presented a formulation in which it did not matter to what form or style of logic Buddha adheres; all that matters is that he agrees that he is using some form of logic.

Completely ignored as I suspected it would be.




I know how they feel.... :(
So far I have shown more respect to my opponents that they had shown to me. Not that their disrespect bothers me, I don't care a bit what they think about me. Sorry, I replied to the wrong post. But you understand what I mean.
 
Buddha -

You're ignoring the problem of uncountably infinite sets.

Since such sets can never be fully observed, by your rules they don't exist.

You're also ignoring the fact that you have yet to define the word "god." At one point you said god could do anything he wanted. At another, you said he wasn't omnipotent. Those two things are incompatible. They cannot both be true.

You also defined god as the observer necessary for the universe to be created. But how does the existence of such an observer show that this god could do anything he wanted? How does it show that such gid even still exists? (You expressed disdain for the idea that the creation of the universe could coincide with god's suicide.)

What I believe is that you have multiple definitions of the word god held simultaneously in your head. I believe you slip from definition to definition depending upon the requirements of your current argument. And the evidence in this thread is that, when an argument of yours is questioned, you slip back into some alternate definition.

You also flat out avoid the questions by nattering on about Popper and dinosaurs and other things that have nothing to do with the topic. And I predict that if you bother to answer my post at all, it will be this last paragraph that you quibble with.
I also said that I refer not to use the word "omnipotent" which is consistent with my position. Besides, this word is irrelevant to my presentation.
 
If you believe that the Popper doctrine represents current scientific thinking this is your problem...

I never said it did, and this is the second time you've tried to paste that irrelevant argument on me. You're the one obsessing over Popper, and no one can seem to figure out why.

I am not going to waste your time trying to convince you that is not so.

Good, because no one is asking you to play professor. And you're not very good at it to boot. Now that we agree your pontification is useless, perhaps you'll focus on what's wrong with your proof.

When I presented my proof I had a different goal in mind that doesn't involve bickering with you about a topic that is of no interest to me.

Don't try to blame your distractions on your critics. You're the one quoting Popper left and right, albeit from only one of his books -- the only one you've read. You should be defending your proof for the existence of God, and this is universally what your critics have been trying to get you to do. Instead all you've done is declare their rebuttals to be "weak" without further detail and taking every opportunity to call them ignorant.
 
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Buddha -

You're ignoring the problem of uncountably infinite sets.

Since such sets can never be fully observed, by your rules they don't exist.

You're also ignoring the fact that you have yet to define the word "god." At one point you said god could do anything he wanted. At another, you said he wasn't omnipotent. Those two things are incompatible. They cannot both be true.

You also defined god as the observer necessary for the universe to be created. But how does the existence of such an observer show that this god could do anything he wanted? How does it show that such gid even still exists? (You expressed disdain for the idea that the creation of the universe could coincide with god's suicide.)

What I believe is that you have multiple definitions of the word god held simultaneously in your head. I believe you slip from definition to definition depending upon the requirements of your current argument. And the evidence in this thread is that, when an argument of yours is questioned, you slip back into some alternate definition.

You also flat out avoid the questions by nattering on about Popper and dinosaurs and other things that have nothing to do with the topic. And I predict that if you bother to answer my post at all, it will be this last paragraph that you quibble with.
These infinite sets exist in mathematics. Mathematics is not a natural science.

"Disdain" is not the right word because the suggestion that God "committed suicide" doesn't bother me at all. This is a rhetorical question because "God's suicide" cannot be expressed in linguistic terms. The language itself is based on experience, not on meaningless combinations of words.
 
I also said that I refer not to use the word "omnipotent" which is consistent with my position. Besides, this word is irrelevant to my presentation.

Asked and answered. You reject the word, but not the concept, therefore we reject your hairsplit. You define a God that is functionally omnipotent. Therefore the word "omnipoent" applies whether you want it to or not.
 
These infinite sets exist in mathematics. Mathematics is not a natural science.

The mathematics describe a concept that exists in nature and, according to your misinterpretation of philosophy, cannot exist. The point of Loss Leader's rebuttal is to illustrate your misunderstanding of observation. You rely upon that misunderstanding to dismiss the first two cases in your proof.
 
I'd heard people mention that, but I'd not seen it linked to. It's interesting that he gives 3 contradictory possibilities for how sexual reproduction could have evolved: 1) the penis evolved first and then a million years later the vagina evolved, 2) the vagina evolved first and then a million years later the penis evolved, 3) the vagina and the penis evolved at the same time. He then points out that 1 & 2 must be false because if they evolved separately they would be unlikely to be compatible.

As I understand logic, this means that option 3 must be correct and therefore his book proves evolution true.

Congrats, Buddha, you have proved evolution true.
I will gladly discuss the evolutionary theory at a different thread if you start it. Right now such discussion is not my priority. If this website's software supports subscripts and superscripts, I might interject couple of formulas into the discussion.
 
I will gladly discuss the evolutionary theory at a different thread if you start it. Right now such discussion is not my priority.

Well, which is it? You want to have the discussion or you don't? What exactly is your priority in this thread? It doesn't seem to be proving the existence of God.
 
Well, which is it? You want to have the discussion or you don't? What exactly is your priority in this thread? It doesn't seem to be proving the existence of God.

His objective appears to be the catering to his ID through philosophical onanism.

He's made no coherent points.

He's completely failed to defend or clarify any of the points he tried to make.

All he's really done is brag about the books he's read and demonstrate he did not understand them very well.
 
Apparently you misunderstood my posts. Why would I apply Popper's doctrine to existence of God if I see his writings as garbage? If you believe that the Popper doctrine represents current scientific thinking this is your problem, I am not going to waste your time trying to convince you that is not so. When I presented my proof I had a different goal in mind that doesn't involve bickering with you about a topic that is of no interest to me.


Maybe it's just the arabesques you draw with your smokescreens in an attempt to disguise or flesh out your mystique thesis and conceal its naïve circularity.


[wow, I can use as many adjectives as you!]
 
So far I have shown more respect to my opponents that they had shown to me. Not that their disrespect bothers me, I don't care a bit what they think about me. Sorry, I replied to the wrong post. But you understand what I mean.

You have only insulted everybody's intelligences with your self-referential shenanigans, while you rudely avoided to reply to any central piece of criticism.

FYI, nobody is buying your act here and declaring yourself as showing respect is as false and a pose as declaring your "argument" valid and non circular.
 
All he's really done is brag about the books he's read and demonstrate he did not understand them very well.

I have to agree. Another morning has come and gone without a single effort being made to address the problems in his proof. All he's done is chastise me and another poster for failing to recognize his genius at philosophy, quote Karl Popper some more, and insist that he's being set upon inappropriately by his critics. That's a pathetic showing.
 
I also said that I refer not to use the word "omnipotent" which is consistent with my position. Besides, this word is irrelevant to my presentation.


Translation: I say it's omnipotent but I chose not to use that term. Additionally I'll deem it to be irrelevant each time I'm caught in my act. The goal here is saying whatever I want and get away with it.
 
I will gladly discuss the evolutionary theory at a different thread if you start it. Right now such discussion is not my priority. If this website's software supports subscripts and superscripts, I might interject couple of formulas into the discussion.

No need. You've proven that evolution must be true. What else is there to discuss?
 

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