Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

[ServiceSoon]

Every time I read threads like this it occurs to me that while Americans talk of "home invasions", others talk of "burglaries".

What us it about the American psyche (or a good chunk of it) that sees imminent death in every bad event, even when it's only marginally threatening to one's life and limb?

Very few see imminent death in every bad event. It's more about right and wrong..Weighing the risk of injury and the unwillingness of the victim to appease or give the benefit of doubt to the criminal. Many lack compassion for "criminals" in the US. Committing a crime of this nature cannot be an accident. There is premeditated malicious intent. The existence of social programs eliminate any good reason to commit such a crime in the modern-age.

The rights of individuals are usually balanced. When one commits an illegal act and becomes a criminal, they forfeit some of their rights. It makes sense to tilt the balance of rights to the lawful citizen. It makes sense to give the lawful citizen the benefit of doubt.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Very few see imminent death in every bad event.

It has nothing to do with not seeing imminent death as a bad event, it has to do with people actually understanding what "imminent death" actually means.

Someone knocking on your door is not "imminent death", nor is a robber running off down the road, or even bending over to take your TV. An unarmed guy backing away from you is not a threat of 'imminent death".

The problem is that some gun totting people in the US want to shoot out of unreasonable fears, and get what they want by expanding the idea of "reasonable" and now they also want to ignore "imminent Death" altogether and just go with "I feared I was going to be killed at some unknown point in the future."

 

[ServiceSoon]

That deadly force can only be used in defence when the attack is likely to be deadly. Defence should be proportionate.

Have you heard of the Use of Force Continuum?

Data of racism in America? Aside from the 2016 election results? And in Florida in particular? Seriously though, there is tons.

Aside from proof of racism (which I seriously hope you don't need) I posted earlier the study that showed that SYG increased murders. And I'll give you one guess on who gets murdered disproportionately.

The last time I took a peak, the majority of homicides are black on black, and white on white.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If the shove to the ground really did scramble his circuits, you think he should still be convicted? I would have a hard time with that, as a juror. When you push someone to the ground, you are taking a chance.

Well, if he had been flailing on the ground, entirely bamboozled, and the gun which happened to be in his hand got fired in random directions that might be a problem to consider.

The rapidity with which he was sitting upright, gun drawn and aimed at the man who just shoved him and is now retreating implies to me he was not confused about what had just happened.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The last time I took a peak, the majority of homicides are black on black, and white on white.

For a very good reason. Most murders are committed by people that know the victim well. A person who commits a murder and is a stranger to the victim is extremely rare. There is a very good reason that in many murders the first people to be suspected and investigated are the spouse, immediate family, close friends, and business partners.

Just with rape, you are more likely to be murdered by someone that you know and trust than a stranger you have never met before.

 

[Fudbucker]

Well, if he had been flailing on the ground, entirely bamboozled, and the gun which happened to be in his hand got fired in random directions that might be a problem to consider.

The rapidity with which he was sitting upright, gun drawn and aimed at the man who just shoved him and is now retreating implies to me he was not confused about what had just happened.

I agree. He would have a very hard time trying to prove temporary insanity from the shove.

 

[Lambchops]

Every time I read threads like this it occurs to me that while Americans talk of "home invasions", others talk of "burglaries".

What us it about the American psyche (or a good chunk of it) that sees imminent death in every bad event, even when it's only marginally threatening to one's life and limb?

Too much fear-mongering propaganda from the likes of Breitbart and Faux News.

 

[Fudbucker]

Too much fear-mongering propaganda from the likes of Breitbart and Faux News.

Trump doesn't happen in a vacuum. One of the causes is the overwhelming terror that many Americans go through life feeling. For some of these people, the list of enemies is almost endless: Antifa, socialists, deep state, RINO's, Mexicans, Muslims, MS-13, atheists, feminists, gays, trans, liberals, and on and on.

The Left is not immune to this, but it seems particularly bad on the Right these days. Sorry, if this was a political derail. I wanted to make a point about fear.

 

[Lambchops]

One good reason not to attack people is there is no way to predict their response -- no way to predict how much it will scare them and how their fight or flight instinct will kick in.

Which is why Mr "I'm-gonna-make-it-my-business-that-you-are-parked-in-a-handicap-spot" should have just walked on, rather than play meter maid Charles Bronson.

Right?

 

[Reactor drone]

Unless you know something no-one else seems too, the above doesn't appear to be true, the States Attorney's Office is still looking into it.

The Sheriff's Office declines to press charges, however I have seen a number of articles with Lawyers speaking out saying that in their opinion, the Sheriff's Department has applied the Law incorrectly because they merely took Drejka's word that he feared for his life rather than applying the Reasonable Standard to that fear as the Law calls for.

I would assume that the prosecutor has access to the evidence gathered by the police. They haven't charged him so they obviously don't think they can get a conviction at this point. If they go to trial and lose they can't have another go later if they get more information. They may still be getting their ducks in a row or they may never have enough ducks.

 

[Lambchops]

Trump doesn't happen in a vacuum. One of the causes is the overwhelming terror that many Americans go through life feeling. For some of these people, the list of enemies is almost endless: Antifa, socialists, deep state, RINO's, Mexicans, Muslims, MS-13, atheists, feminists, gays, trans, liberals, and on and on.

The Left is not immune to this, but it seems particularly bad on the Right these days. Sorry, if this was a political derail. I wanted to make a point about fear.

It must be exhausting to live your life in a state of perpetual fear. Why some people willingly choose to go through life like this, I'll never understand.

"I need to always carry a loaded gun, because every single person I meet is a potential threat". Yeah, good luck with that. That mindset can't be healthy.

 

[Fudbucker]

It must be exhausting to live your life in a state of perpetual fear. Why some people willingly choose to go through life like this, I'll never understand.

"I need to always carry a loaded gun, because every single person I meet is a potential threat". Yeah, good luck with that. That mindset can't be healthy.

It does seem to result in some extreme behaviors and voting patterns.

/derail

 

[Meadmaker]

If the shove to the ground really did scramble his circuits, you think he should still be convicted?

It didn't.

Of course, if he claims it did, he can present the evidence to the jury, and see if at least one of them agrees.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I would assume that the prosecutor has access to the evidence gathered by the police. They haven't charged him so they obviously don't think they can get a conviction at this point. If they go to trial and lose they can't have another go later if they get more information. They may still be getting their ducks in a row or they may never have enough ducks.

The State's Attorney's Office has yet to even comment on the case, so guessing anything is way out in left field. It's just as likely that they have more cases than they can handle and haven't even gotten to do more than glance at it and assign it to a priority pile.

 

[This is The End]

Was the man even yelling at the woman or was she yelling at him?

I see that we have reached the "She was asking for it." point in the thread.

 

[This is The End]

We can't get into his head, but the prima facie incident looks bad enough so that the shooter should be required to tell us WHY he was afraid when HE was the one with the gun out and the guy he shot wasn't attacking him, and was moving away from him.

Welcome to Florida.

 

[This is The End]

The last time I took a peak, the majority of homicides are black on black, and white on white.

Mild shock. That's what happens in a society barely 40 years out from segregation.

 

[This is The End]

The State's Attorney's Office has yet to even comment on the case, so guessing anything is way out in left field.

It might take an entire month. In some states cases are looked at in huge groups, once a month.

 

[Reactor drone]

I see that we have reached the "She was asking for it." point in the thread.

Asking for what?

 

[Lambchops]

Asking for what?

Asking for the father of her child to be shot to death by a trigger-happy moron? While the child was watching?

For parking in a handicap space....

Come on.