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Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

A couple observations: that's like the worst handicapped spot I've ever seen. Usually, they are spots closest to the door. This one seems to be the one farthest from the door. My wife has a handicapped placard. She would not have used the space.

The shooter arrived well after the victim was in the store. What he saw was someone waiting in the car parked in the handicapped space. He had no idea if the person who got out of the car was handicapped or not, so he had no reason to check. But I guess he likes to make sure that the able-bodied people park in the good spaces and that the crappy space with a longer walk is left open for disabled people.

Not all aggression is physical. Confronting someone to berate them about their parking is also aggressive.

Looking at the video, the victim did not approach the shooter aggressively. He did not run up on him, tackle him, etc. He walked up and a normal pace. I find it hard to believe that the shooter could have been unaware of a person approaching from that angle at that speed. If he was unaware, he has really bad peripheral vision. (Should people with vision problems carry guns?)

Timeline: The shove happens at 2:48. After which the victim stands a few feet away with hands on hips and says something to the shooter (who has his head up and is looking at him by this time. (This is at 2:50.) At 2:51, the shooter reaches back and draws his gun. (Eyes are on the victim the whole time.) Victim is not moving forward. In fact, he starts moving back as the shooter reaches for the gun. At 2:52 victim has taken a couple steps back and shooter has gun pointed up at him. at 2:53, victim has fully retreated all the way back to the car and has turned his shoulders to the right, starting motion back towards the sidewalk and the store. At 2:54, victim has stepped with his left foot towards the store. It is at this point, the shooter fires.

The shot was taken three seconds after the victim began his retreat (which the shooter clearly saw) and two seconds after the shooter had fully drawn the gun and trained it on the victim. The idea that this happened quickly with no time to assess is BS. I might buy that if the shooter had fired immediately after drawing the gun, but that didn't happen. It happened two full seconds later. That's really a fairly long time.

I don't believe he fired in self-defense. I believe he fired in anger.
 
TomB said:
Looking at the video, the victim did not approach the shooter aggressively. He did not run up on him, tackle him, etc. He walked up and a normal pace. .
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Another post deliberately diminishing the violence of the physical attack.

It is odd how an argument withe Handicap spot Squatter is "aggressive" but the next sentence is how he walked up at a normal pace, didn't tackle him, etc.

He would up and blind sided him. You want to break down the video? See where the victim was standing before the blind side and where he ended up after the aggressive physical attack left him sprawled on the ground.
 
For what its worth, the few conservative folks I listen to think this should go to court.
 
The Big Dog said:
Another post deliberately diminishing the violence of the physical attack.

It is odd how an argument withe Handicap spot Squatter is "aggressive" but the next sentence is how he walked up at a normal pace, didn't tackle him, etc.

He would up and blind sided him. You want to break down the video? See where the victim was standing before the blind side and where he ended up after the aggressive physical attack left him sprawled on the ground.
Click to expand...

I agree that many are deliberately diminishing the violence of the physical attack, and I even agree it was likely that the attack was going to continue, but as you said the appearance of the gun changed everything. And that's the most important part of the discussion, isn't it?

You yourself said that the attack stopped after the gun was in view, and I agree. The attacker was clearly backing off when he was shot, and it wasn't even close. (Of course, I am watching the video on the Internet, not having just been blindsided and knocked to the ground.)
 
TomB said:
A couple observations: that's like the worst handicapped spot I've ever seen. Usually, they are spots closest to the door. This one seems to be the one farthest from the door. My wife has a handicapped placard. She would not have used the space.

The shooter arrived well after the victim was in the store. What he saw was someone waiting in the car parked in the handicapped space. He had no idea if the person who got out of the car was handicapped or not, so he had no reason to check. But I guess he likes to make sure that the able-bodied people park in the good spaces and that the crappy space with a longer walk is left open for disabled people.
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Just a note on the handicapped spot: it kind of looks like a strip mall layout, so the handicapped curb cutout/ramp may be central to other locations
 
Thermal said:
ITT: people having no idea what being in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury means. Not even a single strong shove that knocks you on your keister is deadly serious, nor is thinking it might theoretically resume and escalate.
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Don't be under any delusions. Every single person damage controlling the shooter in the thread is a known racist from other threads in this forum.

If the victim was the 50 year old white man and the shooter was the 25 year old black man they would not be claiming that a shove is sufficient fear for ones life.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Whats the count on this thread for those who don't?

TBD

anyone else?
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I actually have not commented much about the legal aspects, other than perhaps the "community" will likely ratchet up the political pressure and the DA will end hauling the guy into court, where he will get off, and the community will end up burning down the convenience store.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Whats the count on this thread for those who don't?

TBD
Skeptic Tank (assuming)
logger

anyone else?
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I'm not familiar with the Florida laws enough to have an opinion.

This is The End said:
Don't be under any delusions. Every single person damage controlling the shooter in the thread is a known racist from other threads in this forum.
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LOL! "Known racist" doesn't mean much on this forum.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Whats the count on this thread for those who don't?

TBD
Skeptic Tank (assuming)
logger

anyone else?
Click to expand...
I should clarify, the conservative pundits. I thought it was worth noting that even some folks of influence that support stand your ground think ti should shown in a court that ground needed to be stood. Specifically Ben Shapiro.
 
This is The End said:
If the victim was the 50 year old white man and the shooter was the 25 year old black man they would not be claiming that a shove is sufficient fear for ones life.
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Just so we can wrap our heads around this hypothetical, the 50 year old guy shoves the much larger 25 year old, who is lifted off his feet and sent sprawling on the concrete several feet away from where he was standing?

Under that hypothetical, like here (where the attacker was the younger bigger guy) that would be a proper case of self defense.
 
The Big Dog said:
I actually have not commented much about the legal aspects, other than perhaps the "community" will likely ratchet up the political pressure and the DA will end hauling the guy into court, where he will get off, and the community will end up burning down the convenience store.
Click to expand...

You're just here for the race riots. Check.
 
The Big Dog said:
He would up and blind sided him. You want to break down the video? See where the victim was standing before the blind side and where he ended up after the aggressive physical attack left him sprawled on the ground.
Click to expand...


What's the minimum amount of physical confrontation to warrant deadly response?
 
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