Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

[ponderingturtle]

Seriously, your posts are getting to be about as non-nonsensical as Logger's were. The guy is under arrest for suspected homicide, how do you warp that in your brain to become a SYG case and legit shooting?

The guy pursued him. That is plenty of reason to fear for your life.

 

[Thermal]

ITT: people having no idea what being in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury means. Not even a single strong shove that knocks you on your keister is deadly serious, nor is thinking it might theoretically resume and escalate.

Seriously, is a kid shoving another down in a schoolyard attempted freaking murder? A shove is just not life or death.

 

[The Greater Fool]

ITT: people having no idea what being in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury means. Not even a single strong shove that knocks you on your keister is deadly serious, nor is thinking it might theoretically resume and escalate.

Seriously, is a kid shoving another down in a schoolyard attempted freaking murder? A shove is just not life or death.

Excellent point.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Given that the store owner said this isn't the first time he's been seeing confronting people, there is little doubt in my mind he went looking for a reason to shoot someone.

The other examples given also, iirc, related to people parking in the disabled space. I'd be interested to know if he has a close relation that has a disabled parking badge.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

That should read "Mumbles is correct". I was reading the wrong word when trying to type the "correct" one.

You're starting to sound more like Donald Trump every day.

 

[The Big Dog]

ITT: people having no idea what being in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury means. Not even a single strong shove that knocks you on your keister is deadly serious, nor is thinking it might theoretically resume and escalate.

Seriously, is a kid shoving another down in a schoolyard attempted freaking murder? A shove is just not life or death.

You are completely wrong.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/19/head-trauma-is-nothing-to-be-taken-lightly/comment-page-3/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ent-after-shove-dies/articleshow/48119664.cms
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...dies-brain-bleed-hitting-head-playground.html
https://www.universalhub.com/crime/20150709/woman-faces-charges-after-shoving-elderly-woman
http://www.wmur.com/article/man-suffers-serious-head-trauma-trying-to-stop-fight/5188675
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...Head-Hit-The-Asphalt-Testimony-262650951.html

i could go on and on

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You are completely wrong.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/19/head-trauma-is-nothing-to-be-taken-lightly/comment-page-3/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ent-after-shove-dies/articleshow/48119664.cms
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...dies-brain-bleed-hitting-head-playground.html
https://www.universalhub.com/crime/20150709/woman-faces-charges-after-shoving-elderly-woman
http://www.wmur.com/article/man-suffers-serious-head-trauma-trying-to-stop-fight/5188675
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...Head-Hit-The-Asphalt-Testimony-262650951.html

i could go on and on

Yes, people have died from a single sucker punch or push. They are generally considered freak occurrences. Show me a medical report saying this guy had a serious head injury or brain bleed and I'll entertain that getting shoved is ground for reasonable fear of death. By the time the man had the pistol out and ready, he was no longer in danger. His attacker had stepped back and was making no further attempt to attack him. Maybe he was in some reasonable danger prior, but by the time he pulled the trigger, he was not. Looks like murder to me.


I have a feeling a jury of his peers wouldn't consider his actions reasonable. If there is any justice in the world, charges will be forthcoming from the DA, the sheriff's absurd interpretation be damned.

 

[lobosrul5]

You are completely wrong.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/19/head-trauma-is-nothing-to-be-taken-lightly/comment-page-3/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ent-after-shove-dies/articleshow/48119664.cms
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...dies-brain-bleed-hitting-head-playground.html
https://www.universalhub.com/crime/20150709/woman-faces-charges-after-shoving-elderly-woman
http://www.wmur.com/article/man-suffers-serious-head-trauma-trying-to-stop-fight/5188675
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...Head-Hit-The-Asphalt-Testimony-262650951.html

i could go on and on

If I could've carried a gun on my person between about 6th and 10th grade and shot every kid who shoved me or worse.... man I'd have quite the kill count.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Yes, people have died from a single sucker punch or push. They are generally considered freak occurrences. Show me a medical report saying this guy had a serious head injury or brain bleed and I'll entertain that getting shoved is ground for reasonable fear of death.

I think the criterion is "reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury", with both reasonable and serious seeming to be the wiggle words.

But still, I don't see how he could have feared either, since after he pulled the gun the guy was clearly no longer being a threat if not outright retreating.

 

[applecorped]

15 year old girl got shoved in Cambridge Massachusetts yesterday she fell and hit her head on the sidewalk and she died.

They haven't said yet who pushed her but I wonder if that person will be charged with murder.

 

[The Big Dog]

If I could've carried a gun on my person between about 6th and 10th grade and shot every kid who shoved me or worse.... man I'd have quite the kill count.

neither one of these characters was in in 6th to 10th grade.

What a terrible comparison, but if that is the best y'all can do, I say go for it.

Striking one's head on the pavement is a serious often fatal injury

 

[Thermal]

You are completely wrong.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/19/head-trauma-is-nothing-to-be-taken-lightly/comment-page-3/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ent-after-shove-dies/articleshow/48119664.cms
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...dies-brain-bleed-hitting-head-playground.html
https://www.universalhub.com/crime/20150709/woman-faces-charges-after-shoving-elderly-woman
http://www.wmur.com/article/man-suffers-serious-head-trauma-trying-to-stop-fight/5188675
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...Head-Hit-The-Asphalt-Testimony-262650951.html

i could go on and on

In addition to the other criticisms of this profound argument, did you know you can also break your ankle stepping off a curb if you land just the right way? That doesn't make stepping off a curb a freaking extreme risk.

 

[Thermal]

neither one of these characters was in in 6th to 10th grade.

What a terrible comparison, but if that is the best y'all can do, I say go for it.

Striking one's head on the pavement is a serious often fatal injury

And if he was seen to strike his head, this argument might have relevance.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think the criterion is "reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury", with both reasonable and serious seeming to be the wiggle words.

But still, I don't see how he could have feared either, since after he pulled the gun the guy was clearly no longer being a threat if not outright retreating.

But this is Florida! how are you supposed to find reasonable people?

 

[lobosrul5]

neither one of these characters was in in 6th to 10th grade.

What a terrible comparison, but if that is the best y'all can do, I say go for it.

Striking one's head on the pavement is a serious often fatal injury

You're saying being shoved can result in serious injury. True. So why can't everyone use deadly force after being shoved? If after drawing, the guy started charging him again then he'd be 100% justified. But, he didn't, at the moment he shot, there was no reasonable fear of serious bodily injury. Deadly force can't be justified after the fact. And under Florida statute assault and battery is a misdemeanor. So he can't claim that a felony had been committed. There is no way a shove constitutes felony battery under Florida law as per here: https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/Chapter784/All

 

[Brainster]

I've been blindsided by punches and shoves. Never even entered my mind that lethal force was warranted in response.

As an adult? I can assure you that it is a very serious crime. In Florida, McGlockton's actions constitute simple battery, which would make him eligible for up to a year in prison and a fine of not more than $1000. That is, unless McGlockton had been previously convicted of battery, in which case the law allows for him to be charged with felony battery, which would open up the possibility for him to serve up to five years in prison plus a fine of up to $5000.

 

[Thermal]

You're saying being shoved can result in serious injury. True. So why can't everyone use deadly force after being shoved? If after drawing, the guy started charging him again then he'd be 100% justified. But, he didn't. Deadly force can't be justified after the fact. And under Florida statute assault and battery is a misdemeanor. So he can't claim that a felony had been committed. There is no way a shove constitutes felony battery under Florida law as per here: https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/Chapter784/All

Query: if someone with the flu sneezes on me, that would be attempted murder as well, right? I mean, it could end up killing me.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You're saying being shoved can result in serious injury. True. So why can't everyone use deadly force after being shoved? If after drawing, the guy started charging him again then he'd be 100% justified. But, he didn't, at the moment he shot, there was no reasonable fear of serious bodily injury. Deadly force can't be justified after the fact. And under Florida statute assault and battery is a misdemeanor. So he can't claim that a felony had been committed. There is no way a shove constitutes felony battery under Florida law as per here: https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/Chapter784/All

Yes, he could have been dying of a fatal brain bleed and not been justified. Once the attack stops, so does the justification. The guy backed off the attack with adequate time prior to the trigger being pulled.

 

[Thermal]

As an adult? I can assure you that it is a very serious crime. In Florida, McGlockton's actions constitute simple battery, which would make him eligible for up to a year in prison and a fine of not more than $1000. That is, unless McGlockton had been previously convicted of battery, in which case the law allows for him to be charged with felony battery, which would open up the possibility for him to serve up to five years in prison plus a fine of up to $5000.

Battery is a serious crime, though I don't think a shove warrants the maximum sentence which is likely reserved for more blood-and-guts offenders. Still not attempted murder, though

 

[PhantomWolf]

No. A death which occurs during the commission of felony can be charged as murder to the person committing that felony (hence the term "felony murder"), but misdemeanors don't qualify for that treatment. I'm sure you can imagine the abuses such a law could produce.

Actually even then it is only a very specific list of felony's, such as kidnapping, rape, and robbery.