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Merged A Proof of the Existence of God / Did Someone Create the Universe?

One thing came as a total surprise -- I expected that my opponents base their critiques on scientific realism, which is trending very high these days, but instead they chose the obscure Popper doctrine he called "deductivism"

Perhaps because...
I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists.
:rolleyes:
Sorry, I am running out of time now, I have to return to my work. I'll be back tomorrow.
More than enough time to give us a short overview of the history of deductionism, but no time to actually make a point?
You're not running out of time, you're running out of things to say, and you're stalling.
 
I can do better that giving an empirical proof that the Creator exists -- I can use the methods of deductive logic to prove that the Creator exists.

Stop lying.

If you could provide such proof you'd have done so by now.
 
...but instead they chose the obscure Popper doctrine he called "deductivism"

No, they gave you cogent rebuttals to your claims, which you obviously cannot or will not address. Your pivot today is to try to reduce their claims to some mere philosophical doctrine and then pontificate on the doctrine. That is not an argument. In your rush to categorically evade your critics, you passed up that the majority of what was written since Saturday morning actually concerns your blatant misrepresentation of positivism.

The superstring theories...

...are completely unrelated to your failed proof for God.

No, I am not a physicist. I have...

You've already given us your resume. We don't care. it's irrelevant to your proof for God.

If anyone wants to debate Popper's book...

Second attempt at a pivot. Please stop grasping for things to talk about besides your proof for the existence of God.

Frankly, I am more interested in debates involving scientific realism.

Then you shouldn't have any problem conceding that your proof for God has failed. Please do so and give your critics their due.

Sorry, I am running out of time now, I have to return to my work. I'll be back tomorrow.

You spent your one precious post here repeating your resume, pontificating on subjects you just discovered and patently don't understand, and completely ignoring the rebuttals to your proof for God. This is a very rude.
 
I would like to make few remarks. The discussion was very good, at least from my point of view. This is not sarcasm, I met several very intelligent opponents, I give them a credit for that. Now I know what I would have to do to improve my presentation. First of all I would have to explain to an audience why I chose the videotape (CD) thing. I would also have to elaborate on the method of induction in general.

One thing came as a total surprise -- I expected that my opponents base their critiques on scientific realism, which is trending very high these days, but instead they chose the obscure Popper doctrine he called "deductivism"

Deductivism became a dominant philosophy and replaced positivism in several scientific fields including elementary particle physics, astrophysics, biology, sociology and several others in 1950s. Positivism remained dominant in solid state physics, plasma physics, chemistry, etc.

The media pay inordinate attention to elementary particle physics and astrophysics because they deal with the topics of the universe creation and evolution. It would be fair to say that there were times where deductivism was the predominant philosophical system.

Deductivism went into sharp decline in early 1980s and was almost completely replaced with scientific realism (not to be confused with realism) due to the advent of the superstring theories. I would say that one bad doctrine was replaced by another, equally bad doctrine.

The superstring theories did tremendous damage to modern physics. Before you rush to defense of these theories you should read the book, Not Even Wrong, by P. Woit. The author is one of few remaining scientists who subscribe to the Popper doctrine. In his book he wrote that the superstring theories are incompatible with deductivism because they cannot be falsified and, therefore, are wrong. He also describes the debacle that elementary particle physics and cosmology face these days.

In the future I plan to participate in the conferences dedicated to the superstring theories and whenever possible criticize them. I can use the ideas that I presented here, in modified form, to attack scientific realism and its application to the superstrings. In particular I am planning to criticize the anthropic principle.

No, I am not a physicist. I have MS in Mechanical Engineering with concentration in Control Systems Theory. After obtaining my degree I returned to my alma mater, Polytechnic Institute of NY, as a special student. The word "special" applies to the students who take courses not geared towards a degree.

I took four graduate courses in quantum mechanics and one course in Lie groups theory. My education backgrounds enabled me to read original articles on the Standard Model and superstrings theories. I fully accept the Standard Model, but disagree with the superstrings crap.

I heard about Popper, of course, but before reading his famous book, THe Logic of Scientific Discovery, 5 months ago I had no knowledge of his method of proof and the falsifiability. To me his deductive logic is based on a flimsy foundation.

If anyone wants to debate Popper's book and his articles with me, I'll happily do so at another thread in the Science section. Frankly, I am more interested in debates involving scientific realism.

Sorry, I am running out of time now, I have to return to my work. I'll be back tomorrow.


Why are you repeating yourself and where is that article you claimed you had?

And if some clarification is needed, the kind of replies you got doesn't reflect the philosophy or knowledge of the group who is replying. Everything was called by the mistakes you did yourself. Call it the buddhacrapic principle: your mistakes born in carefully tailored argumentations to fit a purpose will be replied with carefully tailored argumentations to fit your mistakes.

But your words are still very revealing: your purpose isn't find the wrong in your ways but to detect what might be the "philosophical" basis of every piece of criticism. Then, instead of replying to the critics on the specifics you will tailor a way to play down the supposed philosophical basis in their criticism and tell you follow a different approach.

Hence your purpose here is not perfecting your arguments but insulating them in a better way so they can be celebrated by a biased public in some folkloric conference.


Again, where's your article?
 
Wow I am having such Deja Vu right now.

Indeed, where else have we seen the rhetorical anti-pattern of a claimant switching into self-appointed teacher mode when faced with rebuttals he can't address? No, I don't believe the claimants are the same person. I believe this is a common anti-pattern.
 
I have fallen into a coma. Someone kindly rouse me if something meaningful is actually presented by way of this "proof".
 
Why are you repeating yourself...?

Because maybe the pivot will work the second time? Gaslighting requires the gaslighter to be stubbornly persistent, I've found.

[T]he kind of replies you got doesn't reflect the philosophy or knowledge of the group who is replying. Everything was called by the mistakes you did yourself.

Indeed, especially lately the responses he got have included things he got wrong about his own chosen philosophy, the kinds of errors you'd expect someone to make who's only been exposed to this field of knowledge for a few months, never had his command of it adjudicated, and presumes everyone he talks to knows less about it than he. Then when his critics surprise him with knowledge he didn't think they had, he has to resort to such deplorable tactics as gaslighting and pivots.

[Y]our purpose isn't find the wrong in your ways but to detect what might be the "philosophical" basis of every piece of criticism. Then, instead of replying to the critics on the specifics you will tailor a way to play down the supposed philosophical basis in their criticism and tell you follow a different approach.

I gather that too. If the gaslighting isn't working, find out why it isn't working and learn better how to gaslight. Once a claimant commits to the gaslighting approach, it's rare to adopt a different one. Our claimant has read some books on philosophy, just as he probably read some books on evolutionary biology in order to give his "critique" of it some colorful details, and armed with that hammer has gone in search of "nails." Never mind that his argument can't even remain consistent with itself, and that this is painfully easy for his critics to see. No, his critics' observation has to be recast as philosophical doctrine -- i.e., a nail -- that has fallen out of vogue and replaced by the "superior" reasoning skills exhibited in the original argument. It's like the guy who sits through a month of an introductory psychology course and can suddenly diagnose the mental illnesses of everyone around him.

...so they can be celebrated by a biased public in some folkloric conference.

Biased or naive. Or both. There is quite a cottage industry in pseudo-intellectual and pseudo-scientific effort aimed at buttressing propositional belief systems such as religion. These materials are meant to convince their intended audience that surely there were Jews in ancient Mesoamerica (anthropology be damned), that surely Jesus wore a particular Italian tablecloth (chemistry be damned), that surely the Biblical account of creation is plausible (evolutionary biology be damned), that surely this ancient diet will dispel your HIV (immunology be damned), and so forth. These works are circulated among the faithful and never presented for academic peer review. They have the form and effect of scientific inquiry, but none of the rigor and substance.

Conversely this sort of apologetics is a fertile field for amateur scholarship. This is where we have to tread carefully. Clearly many of these claimants enjoy reading and learning new things well into late and middle age. This, and the discursive writing and debate that follows, should be encouraged for many reasons. It doesn't inevitably lead to lording the newfound knowledge over others and other behavior that smacks more of ego-reinforcement than honest scholarship. Reading books, good. Groveling for attention at others' expense, bad.
 
I have fallen into a coma. Someone kindly rouse me if something meaningful is actually presented by way of this "proof".

It was in this way it was discovered that sylvan8798 did not age while sleeping. They were awakened in 2340 to discuss permission to conduct medical research. Blood samples and spinal fluid samples were taken while awake and at various stages of sleep. It was in this way that scientists were able to formulate "Life spice," the nutritional supplement that completely suspends the aging process even when awake.

Sylvan8798 chose not to become an early adopter of Life Spice, stating, "Everyone I know and liked died during my last long nap."

The preserved head of Donald Trump was recorded as responding to this news by calling sylvan8798, "Low Energy" and "Probably born in Kenya."
 
It doesn't inevitably lead to lording the newfound knowledge over others and other behavior that smacks more of ego-reinforcement than honest scholarship.

By what he's only added himself to the long list of self-appointed polymaths who parachute themselves here at regular intervals.

Reading books, good. Groveling for attention at others' expense, bad.

And in perpetuation of the parachutists' routine, I suspect he wouldn't have done the first if he hadn't had the latter in mind.
 
The superstring theories did tremendous damage to modern physics. Before you rush to defense of these theories you should read the book, Not Even Wrong, by P. Woit. The author is one of few remaining scientists who subscribe to the Popper doctrine. In his book he wrote that the superstring theories are incompatible with deductivism because they cannot be falsified and, therefore, are wrong. He also describes the debacle that elementary particle physics and cosmology face these days.

Have you considered why the title of that book is not simply "Wrong"?

Hint: Not falsifiable is different from false, i.e. wrong.
 
Hint: Not falsifiable is different from false, i.e. wrong.

It's what he gets glaringly wrong in his own proof, according to his own chosen brand of philosophy. It's not a battle of "-isms." It's simply that Buddha's argument conflates falsifiability with falsity, a basic error no matter how many authors' names he drops. His proof relies on assuming or asserting the truth value of something his chosen philosophy says can have no truth value that's tenable as knowledge.
 
I have fallen into a coma. Someone kindly rouse me if something meaningful is actually presented by way of this "proof".

Be warned, this post may lead to you living the pilot episode of 'Futurama' for real.

Eta: Ninja'd by Halleyscomet.
 
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When this thread was first split, before you posted, I defended you against the slings and arrows of outrageous cynics.

<derail snipped>

Sorry, I am running out of time now, I have to return to my work. I'll be back tomorrow.

But this is indefensible. Now I regret taking your side to begin with.
 
Indeed, where else have we seen the rhetorical anti-pattern of a claimant switching into self-appointed teacher mode when faced with rebuttals he can't address? No, I don't believe the claimants are the same person. I believe this is a common anti-pattern.

The "Conversation of Woo" has always fascinated me, how if we finally get rid of a certain, at times very specific argument, a nearly identical one will rise to take its place.

It's like there's some universal constant that a "Stalling argument for the absurd defended via a misunderstanding of a broad principle" is just something the universe needs and it abhors the vacuum when it doesn't.
 
I would like to make few remarks. The discussion was very good, at least from my point of view. ... snipped for brevity ...

Sorry, I am running out of time now, I have to return to my work. I'll be back tomorrow.

Well, ...

If you are quite done with the posting of your autobiography, then perhaps you can post that 'proof of a Creator' which earlier you promised to provide to us.
 
None of this so far is impressive; not the "proof," not the evasions, not the arrogance and condescension...

All bog standard (which translates to pretty pathetic) psudo-rational nonsense.
 
Now I know what I would have to do to improve my presentation. First of all I would have to explain to an audience why I chose the videotape (CD) thing. I would also have to elaborate on the method of induction in general.

And try this time to avoid the circular reasoning in it that has being pointed to you several times. You know, the same kind of circular reasoning that you like to falsely attribute to others in your puerile lectures:

«It seems these evolutionists were using circular logic: the beings are human > this skeleton more closely resembles the female human skeleton > this is a hobbit female > these beings are human. When this type of logical deduction is used, the first step in the chain of inferences coincides with the last one. In reality, no one knows how to distinguish a female hobbit skeleton from a male one because not a single hobbit has been captured alive or dug out of a fresh grave»
 

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