I feel this is mostly off-topic and I’m late to responding so I’ll try to keep this short and to the point. edit: I fail but whatever, I wanted to get a response in to this before I forgot. It's probably too off-topic now except the closing part
This isn't a problem at all.
Working class men are disadvantaged compared to upper class men. That doesn't mean economic class oppression doesn't exist. Oppressed working class men gain an advantage over women simply by being born male, in that they will very likely be paid more for their labour than women for doing exactly the same work, for example. This advantage doesn't negate the disadvantages these men face because of their socio-economic status. That there have been individual women in powerful positions doesn't wipe out the fact that historically, political power has nearly always been wielded by and for men as a class.
I disagree with the bolded. I also disagree with the presumption that working class men are advantaged over women. Let’s accept for the sake of argument that not only does the wage gap exist (~5% for same job), that it is also based solely on discrimination. Picking a single example where this is the case doesn’t mean that overall men have advantages over women. The oppressor-oppressed model simply doesn’t account for reality. Once again, the fact that men were mostly those in the positions of power does not grant privileges to the other 99% of men who had no power. Despite the feminist narrative, men don’t just govern by advantaging men over women (I’d argue the opposite is true – that women’s interests are the only interests taken seriously at large and by politicians)
No, they don't. They tend to celebrate it.
Right. Except the bad policies, or privileges that women have over men. These are outright ignored or downplayed in favor of the “men as a class have X” narrative which again I think is nonsense.
LOL. The invisible powerful women!
See above answers
Yeah, right! Women still get paid less for their labour. Often they don't get paid at all.
Often? You mean like stay-at-home moms? Excuse me if I don’t consider the “not working full-time” position to be “unpaid labor”.
Yes, two centuries of feminism has been politically successful and made real gains but the pay gap still exists between men and women all over the world. Money is power.
Money is one element of power. Again conceding the entire wage gap argument doesn’t make it so that men automatically have more power except strictly financially if they work (and only compared to other women who also work).
What you personally "suspect" is irrelevant to whether or nor this bullying exists.
The feminist vs non-feminist perspective is a false dichotomy. Third wave feminism is not the same as second wave feminism, for example. The third wave has largely accepted and been undermined by Postmodern identity politics. Previous feminist political gains are being reversed.
The "progressive sphere" has been strongly influenced by transgender identity activist doctrine/magical thinking. Many on the left are terrified of speaking out about transgender activist bullying. Progressives ( in contrast to conservatives) are strongly motivated by empathy and automatically identify with minorities and underdogs. They are easy meat for guilt trippers claiming superior victimhood, as male transgender activists do!
I
linked to examples of transgender activist bullying, above. The unselfconscious use of the slur "TERFs" in the title of this thread and in the comments are also examples of this. There is no such thing as a "TERF".
I never said it doesn’t exist I was merely responding to your claim that it is “MRAs” behind this type of activism. I suspect you’re dead wrong and I think you’re come to this conclusion only because you see MRAs as an enemy to other people into. Again, just a suspicion based on personal experience.
Pre-Edit: I wonder, does this make all politicians in the "patriarchy" also MRAs since they allegedly construct the world to the benefit of men?
The "talking points" aren't anti-trans. They are anti transgender identity activist political doctrine.
Feminists are and have been natural allies of anyone not conforming to gender rules, including trans people. Feminism seeks get rid of gender altogether.
You need to get out more, apparently.
The notion that lesbians rejecting sex with trans women (i.e men) is transphobic is central to transgender-activist thinking. That's why the Pride protest explicitly referenced it. "Lesbians are female homosexuals" was one of their banners
Well if feminists want to get rid of gender altogether (I agree some of them do) then why do others so adamantly argue that there need to be “women’s spaces”? Do you see how these are conflicting goals/messages?
I never said that that behavior doesn’t happen, as I’ve seen those arguments made by some transgender activists (online, anyway). Pre-Edit: I see now that I wrote ambiguously. What I meant was that I’ve never seen that behavior in the MRM. Only by other progressive groups.
Circumcision is genital mutilation and is most prevalent in patriarchal (male God) religions and psychologically very harmful. It is a form of male violence. There are probably bigger issues facing men than this, though.
As for specific issues (not broad things like “male disposability), I think it’s near the top. Maybe not the top, but up there.
Transgender identity political activism is a subset of mens' rights activism. The activists are campaigning for the rights of men (transwomen).
Women do not have an issue with transmen entering women-only spaces because transmen are women.
What you personally "buy" is your opinion. Thanks for sharing it.
It seems "patriarchy" is a trigger word for you! Whether or not you believe male domination or patriarchy exists isn't so important to the topic of this thread, which is the "Get the L out of LGBT' protest by lesbians at London Pride this year. Maybe you could have a chat with the Pope if you really are unable to identify sex-based power structures.
First, they aren’t only campaigning on the rights of men. Second, I think we just see things differently in how we label and group things. You seem to see anything involving men in any way (trans women ie biologically male) as a men’s rights advocacy. I don’t see things that way. Maybe I’m wrong but I’ve never seen any group of trans activists self-label (or labeled by anyone except in this thread) as under the banner of the men’s rights movement.
Yes, it’s not really the topic but it’s come up as a secondary topic through our conversation but I’ve answered this enough above so I’ll leave it at that.
= strawman, unless you can demonstrate that anyone has ever said "they're pedos". Why wouldn't predatory men take advantage of permission to enter female toilets, prisons and other female-only spaces? Some men, quite a lot of them,
are dangerous and sexually abusive.
Women are afraid of walking home alone at night because they are afraid of men. This seems perfectly reasonable! Men are also afraid of men in this context.
The transgender identity political activist cult is indeed relatively small, numerically, but it is politically very successful and has been able to influence national legal policy and law in several countries, normalising for, example, "transitioning" children, as part of a highly lucrative "transitioning" industry for the medical/pharmaceutical complex and in getting men (XY) who subjectively "identify" as women legally treated as real women (XX). This is what eradicating women as a class looks like.
Rolfe posted this link earlier, which is worth reading:
https://astroterf.wordpress.com/2018/07/16/the-cuckoo-in-the-lgbt-nest/
Facebook is blocking it because it has been reported as abusive.
Who did you think might have found it abusive and reported it as such?
I won’t quote someone in this thread saying this but I’ve seen this sentiment a lot, even on TV. It’s basically the primary argument against sex- (not gender-) segregated washrooms.
“quite a lot of them” is weasel-wording it. Also, the same goes FOR WOMEN. “quite a lot of them” are also dangerous and sexually abusive. Wow, guess we can’t have more than one woman at a time in a washroom.
UK women's groups weren't even consulted on the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act, changes which will impact women negatively.
