Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

[Mojo]

Disagree. The deceased blindsided him and wrecked him. That would be 15 yards and an ejection for targeting.

If only the players were armed, we wouldn’t see this sort of conduct on the football field.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Just watched the video.

Looks to be a case of three total dummies. Ghetto couple who jump right to loud argument and physical violence when faced with an annoying busy-body.

The annoying busy-body, I do not like that type... but someone who is passionate about scolding others for using handicapped spots is far from the worst thing out there. Who knows, maybe their elderly mother has been unable to find a spot multiple times because an able-bodied person had taken it, or something. Now it's their pet issue. Or maybe they just like conflict. I don't know. I wouldn't determine a person to be awful just because they have a passion about that issue or similar things. In fact, society probably depends on those instincts to function.

The guy coming out and blind-side pushing an older guy to the ground is absurd. Someone like that being removed from the planet is probably all around a good thing.

However, it seemed to me based on the video that at the moment he chose to pull the trigger, it was an absurd choice. I mean I don't really mind, because of who he killed, but I would not have pulled the trigger at the point he did, or under the conditions he did, when the guy had backed away. But I know there are a lot of weird laws that basically put you in a "once you pull it, you better fire it" situation and all manner of dumbness like that.

I think drawing the pistol made sense, and holding the guy at gunpoint probably made sense. Firing didn't seem rational at the point he did it, and I would not have done so in order to avoid legal perils if I had been in that situation. I probably wouldn't have even drawn the weapon, but who knows.

Even though he screwed up and it was dumb to shoot, I hope he gets away with it and I hope it angers people hugely.

Hilited: If I may paraphrase our brilliant conservative scholar, Ziggurat.... Wow! Obama really broke you.

 

[angrysoba]

Are you calling footballers chicken?

Ah, yes! I knew something didn't look right there, but to be fair it looked a lot better than the idea that a "15 yards and ejection for targeting" = death by shooting.

 

[angrysoba]

Even though he screwed up and it was dumb to shoot, I hope he gets away with it and I hope it angers people hugely.

ST, we know full well that you are happy to see a black person shot dead. In many other instances this would be an unfair strawman, but in your case it is not.

There is no worthwhile discussion to be had here with you.

 

[PhantomWolf]

It's only on page 2 and the line of damage control is clear.

Normalize the law. Try and make it appear that the law is just like it is in every other state.

Don't fall for that ****** ****.

Don't forget how easy it is to show them for what they are:

Seriously, you are hating on a law without even understanding it.

All of the US has pretty much the same self-defense law, if you have a reasonable belief that your life is in imminent danger, you can use deadly force.

Where the differences come in is if you have a duty to try and retreat prior to doing so. Many States say that if you are in your home or vehicle, then you don't, in other places you do. Florida says if you are legally in the place, then you don't have retreat. This is the only difference, and that is what SYG is, period, you don't have to retreat from someone threatening you.

And it's irrelevant in this case anyway.

The guy was on the ground, and thus he couldn't retreat.

Even if he was in NYC which requires a duty to attempt to retreat if you can, that he was on the ground negates it because he couldn't retreat.

SYG is thus totally irrelevant to the entire thing, and it's simply a case of did he have a reasonable belief that his life was in imminent danger.

The video would suggest that the answer to this is no, that any such fear was unreasonable.

The Cops have the Law wrong. The Sheriff stated that we couldn't put our belief over the shooters, but in fact that is exactly what the Law demands. It demands that the fear is reasonable, in other words, if a reasonable person was in the position, would they consider their life to be in imminent danger.

As I said the answer is no. Thus he should be charged with Murder 2 and plead his case in court. Simple.

The Sheriff has it wrong, so stop beating on a law you clearly don't understand and place the blame for the failure to arrest where it belongs, squarely in the shoulders of a dumb-ass sheriff who doesn't understand the law he supposed to be enforcing.

And yes, the media don't understand it either, well they might, but they like to use flashy headlines and stories to sell their news so it's easy to paste SYG everywhere and watch all the half-educated explode as they respond to the click-bait.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I also have to wonder if the situation escalated because the shooter had a gun. Unarmed, would he have been so aggressive? I guessing not. Likely another case of firearm used as substitute for social skills.

I have to admit that I have considered the same, and whether he would have been so willing to confront the driver in such a way had he not been armed.

I get the feeling he was little more than a wannabe vigilante with a gun waiting for a chance to use it.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Yet another Thursday in the USA.

 

[Craig4]

Take away the gun culture, and this is a mere shoving match and ends without tragedy. Add back that culture, and the death penalty is seen as a normal outcome, including the orphaned child. Nice "culture." Bet Ugluk is smiling in his shallow cave pit.

I don't think it ever would have been a shoving match without the gun. The shooter didn't appear to be protecting himself physically when he got shoved. The shooter escalated because he had a gun. If the shooter had been unarmed, I doubt this would have even been a conversation about the parking space.

 

[Reactor drone]

I guess an armed society isn't necessarily a polite society after all.

 

[Reactor drone]

The shooter didn't appear to be protecting himself physically when he got shoved.

His attention was on the woman in the car that he was arguing with. From the shooter's point of view some random guy just attacked him.

 

[The Big Dog]

Yup, I see why TBD refused to post a link to the video. It's quite clear, the police have it wrong, they need to charge with Murder 2 and let the court sort it out. There is no way a reasonable person would have feared for their lives in this situation.

The video has been posted repeatedly.

The victim got wrecked.

And if you thought it was reasonable to assume that the incident was over, you have never seen the videos on World Star HipHop of the violent stomping the *********** **** out of defenseless people on the ground.

Let me know if you need another link to the video,

 

[Ziggurat]

The Cops have the Law wrong.

He would know this if he had actually read my links with the intent to understand.

 

[Ziggurat]

The video has been posted repeatedly.

The victim got wrecked.

And if you thought it was reasonable to assume that the incident was over, you have never seen the videos on World Star HipHop of the violent stomping the *********** **** out of defenseless people on the ground.

Let me know if you need another link to the video,

The shooter had a right to present the gun. But as soon as he did, the fight essentially stopped. The victim made no further attempt to attack. Absent the gun, he might well have, but in the presence of the gun he didn't. It could have ended there. If charges are pressed, the prosecution can make a good case that shooting the gun at that point was unjustified.

Read the links I posted upthread. It's by an actual lawyer who literally wrote the book on the legal right to self defense.

 

[Thermal]

The video has been posted repeatedly.

The victim got wrecked.

And if you thought it was reasonable to assume that the incident was over, you have never seen the videos on World Star HipHop of the violent stomping the *********** **** out of defenseless people on the ground.

Let me know if you need another link to the video,

Inorite? In bars and playgrounds nation wide, a shove is widely acknowledged as a death sentence. Plus ya gots to keep them darkies in their place, ya know. Imagine, laying hands on a White Man in this day and age. Totes deserved it.

 

[The Big Dog]

Inorite? In bars and playgrounds nation wide, a shove is widely acknowledged as a death sentence. Plus ya gots to keep them darkies in their place, ya know. Imagine, laying hands on a White Man in this day and age. Totes deserved it.

While we all appreciate a fine tactic of dismissing the initial attack as merely a “shove” akin to a playground shove, in this case the attack came from the side, lifted the victim completely off the groung and slammed his body and head against concrete. The victim was undoubtedly concussed.

Plenty of people have suffered brain damage or death due to slamming their heads on concrete. I know of two.

So yeah, the deceased totally deserved it.

 

[Thermal]

While we all appreciate a fine tactic of dismissing the initial attack as merely a “shove” akin to a playground shove, in this case the attack came from the side, lifted the victim completely off the groung and slammed his body and head against concrete. The victim was undoubtedly concussed.

Plenty of people have suffered brain damage or death due to slamming their heads on concrete. I know of two.

So yeah, the deceased totally deserved it.

Oohh! Another made-up detail from TBD! He doesn't hit his head, he rolls off his shoulder. Was there a hospital report or something that leads you to this story of concussions, or is it because that's how we all know how these WorldStarHipHops roll? Please feel free to present it.

 

[Ziggurat]

So yeah, the deceased totally deserved it.

That isn't the relevant legal standard.

 

[The Big Dog]

Oohh! Another made-up detail from TBD! He doesn't hit his head, he rolls off his shoulder. Was there a hospital report or something that leads you to this story of concussions, or is it because that's how we all know how these WorldStarHipHops roll? Please feel free to present it.

Rolls off his shoulder? Quick anatomy question, if one were to land on one’s shoulder and “roll off” it, what is the next part of the body that would strike the concrete?

The head.

Most of the stompings on world star are nsfw, so do your own research.

 

[Thermal]

Rolls off his shoulder? Quick anatomy question, if one were to land on one’s shoulder and “roll off” it, what is the next part of the body that would strike the concrete?

The head. The other shoulder.

Then sit up, as he did. FTFY.

Most of the stompings on world star are nsfw, so do your own research.

A rhetorical question: why are you equating this one guy with WorldStar? (wink, wink). Do you measure all assaults and batteries by the World Star Scale?

You forgot the hospital report, too. Oversight.

 

[The Big Dog]

Then sit up, as he did. FTFY.

A rhetorical question: why are you equating this one guy with WorldStar? (wink, wink). Do you measure all assaults and batteries by the World Star Scale?

You forgot the hospital report, too. Oversight.

The hospital report? Why do you ask for it, you saw it and know that he was concussed despite the fact that he did not get to his feet for a long time? I would think that isn’t available, HIPPA and all.

Rolls off the shoulder, you do have us on.

WORLD STAR!