Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2

[theprestige]

Be specific. What kind of indictments are you expecting WON'T come out of this Mueller probe?

As far as I can tell, neither of you actually expects Mueller to indict anyone in the Trump campaign for colluding with Russia to influence the election.

 

[Fudbucker]

As far as I can tell, neither of you actually expects Mueller to indict anyone in the Trump campaign for colluding with Russia to influence the election.

In Trump's campaign? Oh, I expect charges to come out of that. I'm not sure it will reach Trump or the people in his orbit, though. But the question isn't about Roger Stone-types getting caught up in this, but the really big fish.

 

[theprestige]

In Trump's campaign? Oh, I expect charges to come out of that. I'm not sure it will reach Trump or the people in his orbit, though. But the question isn't about Roger Stone-types getting caught up in this, but the really big fish.

Okay? Is that what you're proposing to bet on?

 

[NoahFence]

Pay attention.

 

[Ziggurat]

Be specific. What kind of indictments are you expecting WON'T come out of this Mueller probe?

I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.

 

[slyjoe]

Careful - there is no crime of "collusion". Remember?

 

[theprestige]

: wink8 :

That's a really weird spelling of "my mistake, I now see that you did give an alternative."

 

[Fudbucker]

I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.

Not just Trump officials. There may be Congressmen caught up in this. And former high-level Trump officials, like Flynn.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

The connection you're referring to here is the entirely mundane and commonplace meeting between representatives of the president-elect and their foreign counterparts.

No, I'm referring to meetings between a member of Trump's campaign staff and Russian agents, and relatives of Putin, in which they discussed "dirt" on Clinton, and the Trump campaign, and tried to set up meetings between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

And you replied by asserting that the connection had been demonstrated.

No I didn't.

I'm willing to admit that my claim was wildly speculative.

Good. Christ, that took a lot more work than it should have.

Those details don't seem to include the "connection between Trump and Russia" that we're talking about. Can you quote an excerpt that demonstrates that connection?

Well, to pick one example at random:

DURING THE JULY 2016 REPUBLICAN CONVENTION
Page Meets With Kislyak

Carter Page and J.D. Gordon, national security advisers to the Trump campaign, meet with ambassador Sergey Kislyak. They stress that Trump would like to improve relations with Russia. Page later testifies that the subject of sanctions may have come up “in passing.”

Carter Page, working on behalf of the Trump campaign, meets with the Russian ambassador to the US, and illegally talks about sanctions. That's one example out of the many such instances. I know there's a lot of this stuff, so I can't blame you if you haven't kept abreast of it, but it wouldn't hurt you to read the link I provided, as it's a good starting point.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.

What do you call Flynn and Manafort?

Oh that's right, you think a plea deal means the only crime was the one it was pled down to.

 

[Ziggurat]

Not just Trump officials. There may be Congressmen caught up in this. And former high-level Trump officials, like Flynn.

Congress, Senate, Cabinet members, Trump & Family, chief of staff, campaign manager, anyone on the security council... that a big enough list?

But it has to be an indictment for illegal activities helping Russia to affect the 2016 election. Process violations don't count, anything prior to or after the 2016 election don't count. So current indictment against Flynn wouldn't qualify.

 

[acbytesla]

I'm willing to make a forum bet that no high-level Trump officials will be indicted for collusion with Russia to affect the 2016 election.

Careful - there is no crime of "collusion". Remember?

Exactly. So Zig will be right.

But is there really any doubt that members of the Trump campaign staff or associates knew and had discussions with Russian operatives on how the Russians could help?

I don't know what laws they broke but that doesn't mean these acts didn't happen and Trump etc tried to cover it up.

 

[Ziggurat]

What do you call Flynn and Manafort?

Oh that's right, you think a plea deal means the only crime was the one it was pled down to.

We were specifically talking about indictments. If there isn't an indictment, obviously it won't count for this bet.

And everything involving both Flynn and Manafort wasn't about the 2016 election. Flynn allegedly lied about stuff that happened during the transition (post election). Manafort's alleged crimes predate the 2016 campaign.

 

[Fudbucker]

Congress, Senate, Cabinet members, Trump & Family, chief of staff, campaign manager, anyone on the security council... that a big enough list?

But it has to be an indictment for illegal activities helping Russia to affect the 2016 election. Process violations don't count, anything prior to or after the 2016 election don't count. So current indictment against Flynn wouldn't qualify.

Those are acceptable terms. Now, what's the bet?

 

[phiwum]

What are they going to do? Buy a handful of social media ads that maybe have a negligible influence on a race that nobody expected to go that way, and that ended being so close that the losing candidate could have won simply by being slightly less bad? Because I will probably be able to produce some mild outrage about that.

Sorry, you think that the allegations about Russian interference are about sponsored ads?

 

[NoahFence]

That's a really weird spelling of "my mistake, I now see that you did give an alternative."

It wasn't a realistic alternative.

 

[NoahFence]

Golly things must have sucked before 1818!

I heart hysterical hyperbole.

and we heart traitors.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

We were specifically talking about indictments. If there isn't an indictment, obviously it won't count for this bet.

And everything involving both Flynn and Manafort wasn't about the 2016 election. Flynn allegedly lied about stuff that happened during the transition (post election). Manafort's alleged crimes predate the 2016 campaign.

I know you've chosen to dig your heels in to the bitter end, but damn that must be getting hard to do.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sorry, you think that the allegations about Russian interference are about sponsored ads?

He shows a serious lack of understanding how the manipulation via social media works.

 

[theprestige]

Sorry, you think that the allegations about Russian interference are about sponsored ads?

Good question. There's also the DNC email hacking. Is that what you're referring to?