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WHat is you stand on Abortion?
Just interested.

Roe v. Wade is terrible law and should be overturned. That said, I am reluctantly pro-choice. I think abortion is morally wrong, but not so obviously wrong that we should go around locking people up for performing/having them.
 
More broadly, are Catholics over-represented in the legal profession? Is there something about being raised in a religion with strict rules and a rigid hierarchy that makes a legal career appealing?


It's not strict rules and a rigid hierarchy that makes Catholics overrepresented in law. It's the approach to theology. Catholics have a very long intellectual history that includes a variety of authoritative sources, legal precedents, and research into handed down tradition. Reading a papal bull (official edict from the pope on matters of church law) reads a lot like reading a Supreme Court decision. Both will depend on history, prior decisions of the court/church, and subtle meanings of words from the primary legal documents (the Bible or the Constitution, respectively.)

Protestants, in general, have a more direct take on things. They depend on the Bible alone, or those parts they choose to like, and trust individual interpretation of those words. They might have some reference to the prior writings of influential preachers, but those don't have any actual "official" standing, the way the writings of previous popes have within the Catholic Church. Catholicism is much more legalistic than most protestant denominations.

As for Jews, take the Catholic legal approach and ratchet it up another notch. Jewish practice depends on reading the authorities, and demands interpretation and argument. The religion is all about the law, and people are expected to learn it, study it, and even interpret and argue about it. Becoming a lawyer is a natural fit for anyone who has undertaken Jewish-style Torah study.
 
Roe v. Wade is terrible law and should be overturned. That said, I am reluctantly pro-choice. I think abortion is morally wrong, but not so obviously wrong that we should go around locking people up for performing/having them.
Thank you for this. Without expressing a position, I studied this issue extensively in the mid-nineties, and it is very complex. Much more complex than the 2 extremities have attempted to paint it over the past 50 years. Probably why it is still not as settled an issue as either side would have hoped for. It will be very interesting going forward to see how it all plays out in the U.S.
 

So, this is what I mean. The 2nd amendment isn't very clear on exactly what ought to be allowed, and exactly what can be regulated. The right to keep and bear arms is clearly not absolute, but it clearly is a right intended for individuals to exercise. Clearly, though, the law can restrict exactly what sort of arms can be kept and borne, and how. This is a view consistent with tradition, with the actual words of the constitution, with statutory law, and with the history of Supreme Court jurisprudence.

In such cases, there ought to be deference to the legislature for exactly where the line ought to be drawn within the wide limits dictated by the constitution. Judge Kavanaugh, though, seems to wish to use his power to further his own agenda, which supports widespread legal possession of all sorts of firearms, and very few restrictions on the manner of their employment. That's all well and good, and I encourage everyone who feels that way to vote for politicians who share their views, but pushing that agenda from the bench is the very definition of "judicial activism".
 
I think if Roe is overturned, the backlash will be horrendous for the GOP,and in the states that will ban abortion you will see the most massive open defiance of the law since Prohibition.
The real problem is that the whole idea of abortion being wrong I based upon it being murder, and that preposes the preexistence of a soul in a fetus. I think that is a thelogical belief, and I strongly object to thelogy being made into law.
 
So, this is what I mean. The 2nd amendment isn't very clear on exactly what ought to be allowed, and exactly what can be regulated. The right to keep and bear arms is clearly not absolute, but it clearly is a right intended for individuals to exercise. Clearly, though, the law can restrict exactly what sort of arms can be kept and borne, and how. This is a view consistent with tradition, with the actual words of the constitution, with statutory law, and with the history of Supreme Court jurisprudence.

In such cases, there ought to be deference to the legislature for exactly where the line ought to be drawn within the wide limits dictated by the constitution. Judge Kavanaugh, though, seems to wish to use his power to further his own agenda, which supports widespread legal possession of all sorts of firearms, and very few restrictions on the manner of their employment. That's all well and good, and I encourage everyone who feels that way to vote for politicians who share their views, but pushing that agenda from the bench is the very definition of "judicial activism".

I agree with you. I was seconding your claim, not trying to refute it.
 
Question: Should it matter that Kavanaugh is Catholic? That will mean that six or seven (depending on how you count Gorsuch) justices are Catholic, and two are Jewish. No mainstream Protestants, no non-believers, certainly no Muslims or Buddhists. Can we really say that someone's upbringing and core beliefs won't have any impact on their legal perspectives?

More broadly, are Catholics over-represented in the legal profession? Is there something about being raised in a religion with strict rules and a rigid hierarchy that makes a legal career appealing?


3 Jews - Kagen, Ginsburg and Breyer.

To my knowledge, Jews are the most overrepresented minority in the legal profession. I think we're something like 25% of lawyers in the US while being 1.4% of the population. I can't find a good source for that number, though. It turns out that counting Jews is something that's generally frowned upon.
 
I agree with you. I was seconding your claim, not trying to refute it.

Yes. I understood that, and thank you for the information you posted. It perfectly illustrated my point.


Republicans insist that they want a judge who will fairly interpret the law, instead of an activist that will impose his own agenda and "legislate from the bench". I think Judge Kavanaugh's record demonstrates that he is not such a judge.
 
...
The real problem is that the whole idea of abortion being wrong I based upon it being murder, and that preposes the preexistence of a soul in a fetus. I think that is a thelogical belief, and I strongly object to thelogy being made into law.

Realizing this is tipping towards off-topic, can you clarify if you imply that the legal concept of murder implies the existence of a soul in some theological sense?
 
Realizing this is tipping towards off-topic, can you clarify if you imply that the legal concept of murder implies the existence of a soul in some theological sense?

If the "thing" in question doesn't have a neurosystem sufficiently advanced to feel pain or suffer a... end of existence in anyway that makes any kind of sense the only reason to handwring over whether or not destroying it is 'murder' is if you think there's some 'essence' of self that isn't biological/neurological in nature already in the thing at that point and that's a soul.
 
If the "thing" in question doesn't have a neurosystem sufficiently advanced to feel pain or suffer a... end of existence in anyway that makes any kind of sense the only reason to handwring over whether or not destroying it is 'murder' is if you think there's some 'essence' of self that isn't biological/neurological in nature already in the thing at that point and that's a soul.
I find this confusing. It seems to imply that murder can only be considered wrong because humans have a soul?

Anyrate, back to the subject. Kavanaugh's feelings on Roe V Wade are not nearly so clear as people seem to think. His decision in the illegal immigrant case was pretty narrowly defined. A 17 year old wanted an abortion immediately, the administration wanted to place here with an adult sponsor first. Kavanaugh said that delay was reasonable. That might signal greater antipathy to roe v wade or it might not. In his confirmation for the circuit court he said he'd respect Roe V Wade's precedent. As a Supreme, he's not really bound by precedent the way a lower court would be so that doesn't really say much either.
 
It's a question of Analog vs. Digital: either a fertilized egg cell become a human gradually, which means that before a certain threshold it is not murder to kill it; or fertilization flips the switch from monozygote to human.
 
(for ahhell, trying to explain JoeMorgue's point)
I think he's saying this:

In the non-religious view, murder is wrong because it causes pain and suffering to a person and their loved ones. Abortion doesn't fall into the same category, because the fetus doesn't have the capacity for pain or suffering.

The religious conflation of abortion to murder, therefore, must be based on something else. The belief in some special vitality/soul/lifeforce is likely that thing.

ETA: AS always, feel free to throw things and call me names if I've mis-represented ;)
 
To those complaining that it creates a conflict around things like in vitro, if you give them enough time they will get around to outlawing that to. It will work out in the end.
 
In the non-religious view, murder is wrong because it causes pain and suffering to a person and their loved ones. Abortion doesn't fall into the same category, because the fetus doesn't have the capacity for pain or suffering.


I don't necessarily agree. In my (non-religious) view, I am perfectly at ease with moral ambiguities. Abortion and murder may be on the same spectrum and somewhere on that spectrum is a line between what is acceptable and what is not. I have no idea where exactly that line is. But I don't think I need to know that in order to determine that abortion is definitely on the allowable isde and murder is definitely not.
 
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