Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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Darat said:
The ECHR is nothing to do with our EU membership, it's something that Churchill set up and was drafted mainly by the UK.
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A minor detail. Without those pesky foreigners Britain would be able to imprison people without trial, brutalise prisoners, repeatedly arrest people for the same alleged offense, send people to the US for execution, arrest people for being Irish/Catholic, discriminate against homosexuals, permit racially biased juries, et cetera, et cetera.
 
The Don said:
Which one does prisoners having the vote come under ? I think there is a lot of opposition to that one.
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The Firth (et al) case? Article 3 of Protocol No. 1
The High Contracting Parties undertake to hold free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot, under conditions which will ensure the free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of the legislature
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In some other cases of voter discrimination Article 14 has also been invoked.
 
ceptimus said:
We don't want to leave the European Arrest Warrant. It's the EU in the shape of Michael Barnier that is threatening to kick us out and make everyone less safe. Understandable that he thinks threats to the UK are more important right now than the safety of EU citizens.
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Brexit means Brexit!
 
Lothian said:
I am aware some people dislike the ECHR and I know May wanted rid of it. I struggle to find objectionable rights in there and wonder which right May wants rid of. I suspect in reality it is none. Happy for people to identify the obnoxious rights in the list below. I recall MAy constantly blamed the ECHR for being unable to deport Abu Hamza. In reality the court didn't object, the delay was all from the UK end.

Main articles.

Article 1 – Obligation to respect human rights
Article 2 – Right to life
Article 3 – Prohibition of torture
Article 4 – Prohibition of slavery and forced labour
Article 5 – Right to liberty and security
Article 6 – Right to a fair trial
Article 7 – No punishment without law
Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life
Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
Article 10 – Freedom of expression
Article 11 – Freedom of assembly and association
Article 12 – Right to marry
Article 13 – Right to an effective remedy
Article 14 – Prohibition of discrimination
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The problem is the ECHR wants those rights for everyone!
 
GnaGnaMan said:
Can you explain the principle to someone acculturated in a republic?
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I prefer the country to be governed by those we elect to our own institutions.

Amazer said:
At any cost? Or is there a cut-off point where you would reconsider your choice?
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*shrug* I couldn't give you a particular "point" - I'm not sure what scale one could sensibly use. Let's say a point considerably higher than whatever the fallout of leaving the EU is, which is really the only "point" that matters.
 
Seismosaurus said:
I prefer the country to be governed by those we elect to our own institutions.
.
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The EU is our institution and we elect people to it. Ok we don't elect every member. We only elect one. You also get people elected to represent weird places where the people are very different to here and don't understand our way of life and our customs and traditions. Places like Tooting, Newry, Penzance and Cumbernauld, but there are huge advantages in economy of scale if we can share the cost of administration. Advantages that outway the differences between us.
 
Seismosaurus said:
I prefer the country to be governed by those we elect to our own institutions.
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It's an emotional preference without any intellectual rationalization?

How do you feel about being her majesty's subject, governed by her majesty's government?
You do not elect civil servants or even the government. Is that a problem?
 
Seismosaurus said:
I prefer the country to be governed by those we elect to our own institutions.
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What a shame Theresa May doesn't agree with you, she's battled relentless to spare her Brexit policies from any Parliamentary scrutiny and of course to cut parliament out of any say in what EU laws we retain and how they are implemented.
 
GnaGnaMan said:
It's an emotional preference without any intellectual rationalization?
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Pretty much.

How do you feel about being her majesty's subject
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As I understand it, these days the British people are not her majesty's subjects but rather citizens. But I'm quite proud of being a citizen of the UKOGBANI. Or a subject, if you prefer that word.

governed by her majesty's government?

You do not elect civil servants or even the government. Is that a problem?
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Not for me, no.

Garrison said:
What a shame Theresa May doesn't agree with you
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Indeed. Still, one can't have everything.
 
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Seismosaurus said:
Not for me, no.
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Not electing major parts of the british government is not a problem. It looks like the difference in reaction to EU and UK unelected officials is based on ingroup/outgroup psychological mechanisms. Do I get that right?
Thanks for your answers, btw.
 
GnaGnaMan said:
Not electing major parts of the british government is not a problem. It looks like the difference in reaction to EU and UK unelected officials is based on ingroup/outgroup psychological mechanisms. Do I get that right?
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Yes, that sounds about right.

Thanks for your answers, btw.
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Most welcome.
 
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