As I understand it, Gove ripped up the report because the civil servants who wrote it wrongly summarized the views of the politicians. The report made it seem as though Gove approved of the customs partnership idea whereas he actually said it was over bureaucratic and he was against it.
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Only if we are allowed to actually leave and later decide to rejoin. That's a risk we'll have to take.
When the people vote to do something, surely it is only right to actually do that thing? If a country is too scared of the consequences to actually implement the chosen outcome, then it should never offer the choice in the first place. Too late for that now: the choice was already offered and the decision already taken.
The suggestion of remainers is that we fail to implement the choice already democratically made, that way we'll never find out how much better, or worse, things are outside the EU.
It was one of May's fudge attempts. Put the people who favour a hard Brexit in charge of assessing the soft option, and the soft Brexit advocates in charge of assessing a slightly harder (though still soft really) option. She hoped they would somehow come to a fudgy compromise position. All pointless anyhow as the EU will likely say no to either option, or to some mixture of the two options.
The EU is struggling to respond to the UK's position because it is incoherent and even the cabinet don't know.
Whatever happened to "that's ten against and one in favour, the ayes have it"
If the PM can't keep the cabinet in line, then they're utterly useless. If she imposed some discipline, and sacked those briefing against her, the situation couldn't get worse for her, and if it failed, at least sh'ed have some dignity.
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
Yeah, thank goodness we weren't stupid enough to try and decide this whole business on a simple yes/no vote. Can you imagine what a cluster **** that would have turned into trying to decide what bits people actually wanted in or out of?
Seismosaurus
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From what I've read, the two things that drove the leave vote were immigration and sovereignty.
Sovereignty is why I voted leave. And it's why I still would.
Name them please
That would reduce the Cabinet to a handful, briefings are coming from both sides...
Amazer
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What sovereignty did you feel was lost while you were a member of the EU? And do you think you'll get it back in any meaningful way once you are out of the EU?
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And? She'd have to promote nonentities to the Cabinet, but from her point of view- would that really be worse?
But it is all the fault of the nasty EU for not accepting whatever May says at the time regardless as to whether it is physically practical, or even logically consistent.
Here a few of the biggest ones:
Invoicing a Japanese company doesn't create a VAT free export. The exemption (VAT zero rate) depends on the destination given to the goods and on the customs status of the goods
The obligation to VAT register in the EU doesn't rest on where a company s established but on whether it carries on transactions that makes it liable to register for VAT purposes somewhere in the EU. I have worked for 3 different Swiss companies with multiple VAT registrations in EU Member States (UK included).
To which one will need to add customs duties once the UK is not Member of the EU anymore. This might entail that the EU customers of the Japanese company might look for other suppliers with no customs duties or that the Japanese company might look for another subcontractor located within the EU
Coming from a sovereignty angle, what's your opinion on the european arrest warrant?
Will they get a good Friday agreement?
Many voters after an election oppose the result of that election.
Is it democratic to deny the people the right to have a differing view to the outcome of a vote?
The main reason I object to the referendum is not the result of the vote, but the fact that no one knew what the outcome of a leave vote entailed. As can be seen by the state the government is in now.
Indeed, prominent Leavers like Johnson were saying at the time that the UK could stay in the EEA. That is closer to remain than to a hard Brexit that they are now proposing.
I would have guessed that given the tightnesss of the vote, if the referendum had two questions
Should the UK remain in the EU
Should the UK remain in the EEA
then most people would have voted to remain in the EEA.
If the question was - Should the UK remain in the EU, or leave and cause the collapse of peace in Northern Ireland, I guess that the majority would have voted to remain.
Seismosaurus
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For example, being subject to EU Regulations and Directives, the Court of Justice of the European Union and the European Court of Human Rights.
I hope so. Time will tell.
Seismosaurus
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Sovereign states often have extradition treaties and other such arrangements, do they not? I don't see why we couldn't agree something along those lines with the EU.
IIRC the European Court of Human Rights is part of the Council of Europe and not the EU. Russia is a member of the council of Europe.
So unless we had a referendum to leave the Council of Europe we would still be bound by the ECHR.
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