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Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2

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Meadows was questioning Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz, saying “there is growing evidence that 302s [FBI interview reports] were edited and changed. Those 302s, it is suggested that they were changed to either prosecute or not prosecute individuals. And that is very troubling.”
 
Rather than dominate the thread, I think what I will do is post comprehensive evidence that the 302’s were improperly modified. Give avid readers some time to digest it, and I will answer serious thoughtful questions.

Then move on to the next building block of my earlier comment.

Got plenty for you to chew on, so can you let me know what questions you have?
 
davefoc said:
It is a problem. Truth is under constant assault. We have entered a new era here. Fox News the National Enquirer and other conservative media outlets are relentlessly propping up Trump without regard to truth. They have created a group of pro-Trump people that have deep unassailable confirmation biases that favor Trump. I don't think the long term consequences of this are knowable right now, but if Trump was younger or healthier he might be around long enough to destroy the American democracy.
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rwguinn said:
Wait! What did you just say?
...
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I grew up at a time relatively close to the end of WWII and one of the things I wondered about as a child was how the US had managed to avoid Hitler like leadership in its history. I didn't know why then and I still don't but my idea was that some combination of the cultural belief in the importance of the rule of law and the diversity of US religions and cultures prevented any one group from thinking it would be in their interest to impose their wishes on the population as a whole since they might not have the political power to succeed.

Spring forward 50 years or so and a lot of what I believed when I was young about American exceptionalism (I didn't know that term as a child but it is a good term to describe my thoughts back then) has been disproved, starting with the Republican reaction to Richard Nixon. His actions were clearly criminal and I thought either political party would have favored impeachment in that situation. The Republicans didn't. They circled the wagons around their guy against the interests of the country and only relented after the evidence against Nixon became a political liability for themselves.

The second George Bush administration was an eye opener for me. I thought no American president would take the country to war based on clear cut lies. I thought that opposition to torture was a core American value. I also thought that no American president would expend the lives of American soldiers to promote business opportunities for their cronies. I was wrong about all of that and once more my ideas about American exceptionalism were shown to be wrong.

Spring forward to the current situation. The US has elected an addled child like president whose main skill is to tell people lies they want to hear. He is without empathy, ethics or morality and yet he enjoys the support of about 40% of the population. A lot of the techniques he used to get elected and to sustain his support are right out of the Hitler play book. He enjoys the corrupt support of Fox News that is deriving a great deal of income by pandering to and misleading the Trump supporters. This coupled with the support of other media organizations like the National Enquirer are enabling behavior which would have been disabling for any other administration in my lifetime at least.

Trump now is cementing his power base with appointments based on the sole criteria of personal loyalty to the president. Trump is routinely undermining the rule of law abetted by Fox News lies and misrepresentations about the Mueller investigation. Fox News has effectively stopped any opposition to Trump by the Republican Party by making it impossible for Republicans to win elections that oppose Trump.

Altogether a scary situation in my view. But I am optimistic that Trump and his cronies will not succeed in destroying the American Democracy. Not because their morality or ethics limit what they are willing to do. They will fail partially because the American Democratic institutions are holding for right now and because Trump is an old man and he is on the cusp of entering the time when he will not be able to consolidate the gains he is making towards the destruction of the American democracy.

The above is a longer summary of what I meant by the post rwguinn asked about.
 
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The Big Dog said:
More:

Meadows was questioning Department of Justice Inspector General Michael Horowitz, saying “there is growing evidence that 302s [FBI interview reports] were edited and changed. Those 302s, it is suggested that they were changed to either prosecute or not prosecute individuals. And that is very troubling.”
Click to expand...
Meadows saying "there is growing evidence" is not evidence that there actually is growing evidence. It's evidence of Meadows wanting people to think there is growing evidence, but that could be a lie.
 
davefoc said:
Altogether a scary situation in my view. But I am optimistic that Trump and his cronies will not succeed in destroying the American Democracy. Not because their morality or ethics limit what they are willing to do. They will fail partially because the American Democratic institutions are holding for right now and because Trump is an old man and he is on the cusp of entering the time when he will not be able to consolidate the gains he is making towards the destruction of the American democracy.
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I think another cause for optimism is the de-centralised nature of power in the US. States and cities can kick back hard against a fascist putsch in DC.
 
CapelDodger said:
I think another cause for optimism is the de-centralised nature of power in the US. States and cities can kick back hard against a fascist putsch in DC.
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I think so as well and that, now that you remind me, is one of the ideas I had about this when I was thinking about it many years ago.


ETA: Capitalism is also a key part of the distribution of power in the US. It is one of the stronger arguments against societies moving towards too much government involvement in business.
 
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The Big Dog said:
Rather than dominate the thread, I think what I will do is post comprehensive evidence that the 302’s were improperly modified. Give avid readers some time to digest it, and I will answer serious thoughtful questions.

Then move on to the next building block of my earlier comment.

Got plenty for you to chew on, so can you let me know what questions you have?
Click to expand...

At no point, ever, have you actually refuted anything from the investigation or its findings. All of your posts are a mashing of well poisoning and ad hom's against those involved in the investigation.
 
davefoc said:
ETA: Capitalism is also a key part of the distribution of power in the US. It is one of the stronger arguments against societies moving towards too much government involvement in business.
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Capitalism's got its own problems, related, in my opinion, to the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. It's a worldwide problem, shows no sign of slowing, and can only end in tears.
 
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The Big Dog said:
I provided two already, you’ll excuse me if I do not waste my time further picking nits.

Ok one more

https://youtu.be/5zyFXYwFsPA

I am such a good guy. :)
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The assertion I'm asking you to provide evidence for is that there's a growing consensus "that there was a ton of monkey business with the FBI 302's and that McCabe (who actually lied repeatedly under oath) had a hand in it."
 
CapelDodger said:
Capitalism's got its own problems, related, in my opinion, to the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. It's a worldwide problem, shows no sign of slowing, and can only end in tears.
Click to expand...


I suspect we have somewhat different views on the optimal mix of capitalism and socialism in a society, regardless I agree with you about the concentration of wealth being a problem, but one of the main reasons it is a problem is that wealthy people use their wealth to gain special advantages by legally and illegally bribing politicians which I see as a kind of socialism for the rich.
 
davefoc said:
I suspect we have somewhat different views on the optimal mix of capitalism and socialism in a society, regardless I agree with you about the concentration of wealth being a problem, but one of the main reasons it is a problem is that wealthy people use their wealth to gain special advantages by legally and illegally bribing politicians which I see as a kind of socialism for the rich.
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I'm a Keynesian, so hardly a firebrand. I'm a firm believer that a reasonably prosperous and secure middle class to which everyone can aspire is the foundation of a sound and progressive society. Keynesian redistribution did produce that, and it's the middle class which has really taken the hit since it was abandoned.
 
davefoc said:
I grew up at a time relatively close to the end of WWII and one of the things I wondered about as a child was how the US had managed to avoid Hitler like leadership in its history. I didn't know why then and I still don't but my idea was that some combination of the cultural belief in the importance of the rule of law and the diversity of US religions and cultures prevented any one group from thinking it would be in their interest to impose their wishes on the population as a whole since they might not have the political power to succeed.

Spring forward 50 years or so and a lot of what I believed when I was young about American exceptionalism (I didn't know that term as a child but it is a good term to describe my thoughts back then) has been disproved, starting with the Republican reaction to Richard Nixon. His actions were clearly criminal and I thought either political party would have favored impeachment in that situation. The Republicans didn't. They circled the wagons around their guy against the interests of the country and only relented after the evidence against Nixon became a political liability for themselves.

The second George Bush administration was an eye opener for me. I thought no American president would take the country to war based on clear cut lies. I thought that opposition to torture was a core American value. I also thought that no American president would expend the lives of American soldiers to promote business opportunities for their cronies. I was wrong about all of that and once more my ideas about American exceptionalism were shown to be wrong.

Spring forward to the current situation. The US has elected an addled child like president whose main skill is to tell people lies they want to hear. He is without empathy, ethics or morality and yet he enjoys the support of about 40% of the population. A lot of the techniques he used to get elected and to sustain his support are right out of the Hitler play book. He enjoys the corrupt support of Fox News that is deriving a great deal of income by pandering to and misleading the Trump supporters. This coupled with the support of other media organizations like the National Enquirer are enabling behavior which would have been disabling for any other administration in my lifetime at least.

Trump now is cementing his power base with appointments based on the sole criteria of personal loyalty to the president. Trump is routinely undermining the rule of law abetted by Fox News lies and misrepresentations about the Mueller investigation. Fox News has effectively stopped any opposition to Trump by the Republican Party by making it impossible for Republicans to win elections that oppose Trump.

Altogether a scary situation in my view. But I am optimistic that Trump and his cronies will not succeed in destroying the American Democracy. Not because their morality or ethics limit what they are willing to do. They will fail partially because the American Democratic institutions are holding for right now and because Trump is an old man and he is on the cusp of entering the time when he will not be able to consolidate the gains he is making towards the destruction of the American democracy.

The above is a longer summary of what I meant by the post rwguinn asked about.
Click to expand...

TLDR: What do you find most attractive about Trump?

His mental acuity and level of health.

Is that a fair summary?
 
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