Trump immigrant family separation policy

Also new policy from Sessions regarding who is eligible for asylum:

Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Monday made it all but impossible for asylum seekers to gain entry into the United States by citing fears of domestic abuse or gang violence, in a ruling that could have a broad effect on the flow of migrants from Central America.
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Linky.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
https://twitter.com/radleybalko/status/1009247903754448896

I wonder when we're going to start seeing the first deaths?
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The thing is Trump and his lemmings want a few deaths among immigrant children. They think it wil deterr new immigrants from going to the US in the first place.

This is not false. It is abhorrent, but it also does have that effect. The controversy about the policy is sure to reduce the migrant flow for a while, news went around the world and back. However I doubt it's an effecient use of resources, soft power and political will to do something as mundane as reducing the number of immigrants coming in.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because pointing out immigrant children deaths is like saying "this will reduce crime" to them. Surely no one would oppose that, right? The result is they will support Trump even more and shield him against criticism even more than they already do.

Trump is many things, but stupid unfortunately isn't one of them. It would be stupid for him to back down now. It would be good for the country but not beneficial to him or his party, which is why warnings over this will go unheeded, indeed they'll just fan the flames a little more with Trump being the winner.

McHrozni
 
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The push back is starting.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) on Tuesday announced that his administration will file a lawsuit against the Trump administration over its policy of separating children from their parents after crossing the United States border. It comes as dozens of the undocumented children are held in New York facilities.

"Children have legal rights. Parents have legal rights. That's established firmly in the federal and state constitutions and in case law," Cuomo said in a phone interview. "They're fundamental rights. They apply whether they're documented, undocumented, short, tall, Mexican, seeking asylum, or not seeking asylum. Those fundamental rights apply, and we believe they've been violated." News link
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I Am The Scum said:
That is absolutely the way law enforcement works in this country. Cops don't pull over random people because they might be in a stolen car. They don't get to confiscate people's guns because they might be murder weapons.
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Of course they can and do, particularly if the person is black. See stop and frisk.
 
I found it really astounding that some of the kids are being housed in New York. They flew them all the way from Texas to here? This is insane.

Thought: Since the news of all this broke, this has completely pushed the Mueller investigation and Paul Manafort off the front page.
 
McHrozni said:
This is not false. It is abhorrent, but it also does have that effect.
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I don't have it to hand, but there was a news story the other day with internal documents which showed that it's actually had no effect whatsoever. Immigration in May was higher than April, and in line with May last year.

Of course you could say that it just hasn't had an effect yet, and that remains to be seen, but at the moment there's not even the argument that it's effective.

Trump is many things, but stupid unfortunately isn't one of them.
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I'm pretty sure he is. Even leaving aside my own judgements of his statements and behaviour, for the sake of supposing that he might just be playing some weird kind of part for the benefit of the cheap seats, there are numerous statements from people who have worked with and for him who have said that he's a moron. It's a common refrain. They could all be lying, or the role Trump is playing could extend even to non-public parts of his life, but I think the more parsimonious explanation is that he actually is a moron.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I don't have it to hand, but there was a news story the other day with internal documents which showed that it's actually had no effect whatsoever. Immigration in May was higher than April, and in line with May last year.
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It has no effect on those already en route, but it should have an effect on those taking the hard choice to leave their homes today.

Of course you could say that it just hasn't had an effect yet, and that remains to be seen, but at the moment there's not even the argument that it's effective.
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If would be effective, perhaps even highly effective, if it's left to run for a few years.

Of course effective in this context might mean fewer immigrants coming over with children. If you come alone there is no added risk from the policy after all. This wouldn't barely even show up in the overall migration statistics, I believe?

I'm pretty sure he is. Even leaving aside my own judgements of his statements and behaviour, for the sake of supposing that he might just be playing some weird kind of part for the benefit of the cheap seats, there are numerous statements from people who have worked with and for him who have said that he's a moron. It's a common refrain. They could all be lying, or the role Trump is playing could extend even to non-public parts of his life, but I think the more parsimonious explanation is that he actually is a moron.
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No, they aren't wrong and they aren't lying. They're just conflating what his priorities are, it's not the US, it's not the Americans, it's not even GOP, his sole priority is Donald Trump and what benefits him, personally.

Thus far his moronic strategy won him the presidency, dominance of the Republican party - who turned into his yes men within 18 months - lucrative contracts for his business with China and more. Even his tweets have done him little harm but they have served to produce such extreme levels of congitive dissocance among his lemmings that they're finding it all but impossible to find a fault with him. It resembles a stack overflow.

If it's stupid but it works it's not stupid.

That doesn't mean Trump is highly intelligent, he's not. Chances are half of the points above weren't a part of a coherent strategy but pure luck his toxic personality is so well in line with the deplorables. Still, if you look at his actions from the perspective of wanting what's best for him personally, all of his actions are at least reasonable and none are outright dumb.

McHrozni
 
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McHrozni said:
If would be effective, perhaps even highly effective, if it's left to run for a few years.
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Perhaps. I hope it's not in operation long enough for us to be able to gather the data.

No, they aren't wrong and they aren't lying. They're just conflating what his priorities are, it's not the US, it's not the Americans, it's not even GOP, his sole priority is Donald Trump and what benefits him, personally.
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I've seen no evidence to suggest that the people who have known Trump personally and declare him to be a moron are confused about anything.

If it's stupid but it works it's not stupid.
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You're confusing his effectiveness with his intelligence.
 
Craig4 said:
That's not accurate. Jews could leave if they wanted, thousands did.
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What they couldn't do so easily was take any of their money out of the country. In the early days of the Nazi regime the idea of removing Jews by expelling them from Germany but keeping their property was promoted by many anti Semites.
From 1933 until October 23, 1941, Nazi Germany pursued a policy of forced Jewish emigration. Antisemitic legislation and terror served to "encourage" and ultimately to compel hundreds of thousands of German Jews to leave. The government did all it could to make the Jews emigrate. In addition to making life miserable, the German authorities reduced bureaucratic hurdles so those who wanted to leave could do so more easily.​
Holocaust Encyclopedia.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
A senator has been denied entry to a camp where he wanted to view conditions for himself. When the camp was first contacted he was told they would need two weeks notice to grant him access.

This mirrors a case reported on a few days ago when politicians were only granted entry to a camp to see living conditions after a week.
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Once again, Theresienstadt. :(

ETA:

...snip...

Late in the war, after D-Day and the invasion of Normandy, the Nazis permitted representatives from the Danish Red Cross and the International Red Cross to visit Theresienstadt in order to dispel rumours about the extermination camps. The commission that visited on June 23, 1944, included E. Juel-Henningsen, the head physician at the Danish Ministry of Health, and Franz Hvass, the top civil servant at the Danish Foreign Ministry. Dr. Paul Eppstein was instructed by the SS to appear in the role of the mayor of Theresienstadt.[47]

Weeks of preparation preceded the visit. The area was cleaned up, and the Nazis deported many Jews to Auschwitz to minimise the appearance of overcrowding in Theresienstadt. Also deported in these actions were most of the Czechoslovak workers assigned to "Operation Embellishment". The Nazis directed the building of fake shops and cafés to imply that the Jews lived in relative comfort.

...snip...
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