Bitcoin - Part 2

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BobTheCoward said:
What about comic books? I don't think action comics #1 has done anything but appreciate in value for decades.
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That's a collectors' item, like a Penny Black postage stamp. Are you saying that Bitcoins are bought by collectors in that sense? Enthusiasts. Like buyers of Chinese vases?

I don't think such rules apply, though collectors can set off a speculative bubble as did tulip fanciers in the Netherlands in 1637. But tulip values didn't "merely appreciate" did they? They rose vertiginously and then crashed. Like something else I could name, which went to over $19,000 last December, and is today around $6,600. Don't bet the farm on collectors pushing the price back up again to these bubble levels.
 
Craig B said:
That's a collectors' item, like a Penny Black postage stamp. Are you saying that Bitcoins are bought by collectors in that sense? Enthusiasts. Like buyers of Chinese vases?

I don't think such rules apply, though collectors can set off a speculative bubble as did tulip fanciers in the Netherlands in 1637. But tulip values didn't "merely appreciate" did they? They rose vertiginously and then crashed. Like something else I could name, which went to over $19,000 last December, and is today around $6,600. Don't bet the farm on collectors pushing the price back up again to these bubble levels.
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We were not talking about bitcoin. We were talking about

- Have no use value
- produce no income; but nonetheless magically
- appreciate in value.

A collector's item has no use value, produces no income, and appreciates in value.
 
gabeygoat said:
A comic book’s use is entertainment and pleasure
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I don't think they are cracking open detective comics 27.

If we count sense of pleasure, there is pleasure in thinking about something you own, even if you don't take it in with your senses.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
I don't think they are cracking open detective comics 27.

If we count sense of pleasure, there is pleasure in thinking about something you own, even if you don't take it in with your senses.
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True enough. I’d still prefer the collectible, but then again, I ruined the value of many of my comic books as a kid, by reading them haha. My collector friend would always get frustrated with me.
 
Craig B said:
No I haven't. I have described in those words only the commodities that
- Have no use value
- produce no income; but nonetheless magically
- appreciate in value.
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By definition, commodities produce no income. They include precious metals, currencies and collectibles. The only way to make money from them is to capitalize on price changes in them.

Note that some commodities might have an incidental use value but so does bitcoin (even if you wouldn't use it).
 
psionl0 said:
By definition, commodities produce no income... The only way to make money from them is to capitalize on price changes in them.
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Nonsense.

Commodity
A commodity is a basic good used in commerce that is interchangeable with other commodities of the same type. Commodities are most often used as inputs in the production of other goods or services.
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The primary way of making money out of a commodity is to incorporate it into a product or service. A 'commodity' which has no use value should be worthless, because why would anyone want to buy something they can't use?

Note that some commodities might have an incidental use value
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Any commodity whose use value is 'incidental' is on shaky ground.

BobTheCoward said:
If we count sense of pleasure, there is pleasure in thinking about something you own, even if you don't take it in with your senses.
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Yes, and there is pleasure in thinking about something you own being 'valuable', even if it is actually worthless.

If people want to waste their money on useless objects just so they can own them that's fine, but you can't run an economy on 'collectibles'. Real economies need real goods which are made into real products that are used to keep people healthy and happy. You could argue that just being able to own stuff makes people happy, but there is an opportunity cost. Imagine an economy where everyone is fawning over their 'valuable' collections, but can't pay their bills and are starving to death.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Nonsense.

Commodity


The primary way of making money out of a commodity is to incorporate it into a product or service. A 'commodity' which has no use value should be worthless, because why would anyone want to buy something they can't use?

Any commodity whose use value is 'incidental' is on shaky ground.

Yes, and there is pleasure in thinking about something you own being 'valuable', even if it is actually worthless.

If people want to waste their money on useless objects just so they can own them that's fine, but you can't run an economy on 'collectibles'. Real economies need real goods which are made into real products that are used to keep people healthy and happy. You could argue that just being able to own stuff makes people happy, but there is an opportunity cost. Imagine an economy where everyone is fawning over their 'valuable' collections, but can't pay their bills and are starving to death.
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None of which supports your accusation it is Ponzi scheme.
 
BobTheCoward said:
We were not talking about bitcoin. We were talking about

- Have no use value
- produce no income; but nonetheless magically
- appreciate in value.

A collector's item has no use value, produces no income, and appreciates in value.
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Not all items are suitable to become collectible, as I have suggested. Among there are assets that have no physical existence. It is not enthusiasts who are buying these things to stick in albums. Moreover Bitcoin is not appreciating. If you bought it at peak you've lost about two thirds of your investment, and are holding assets that produce no income. Good luck.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Ok .. unless you are the guy with 90.000BTC, it's just a game. If you are that guy, it's one hell of a game.
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And if you are some guy who bought 100 coins when the value was close to $20,000?

And I think there were many people who did. :jaw-dropp (not 100 but large sums of money compared to their net worth).
 
psionl0 said:
Or perhaps the entity known as "Satoshi Nakamoto" came to a bad end and that is why their wallets haven't been touched nor has anybody heard from them for a long time.

Speculation is not knowledge and hope is not a forecast. Your posts belong strictly in the CT section - as do all the other posts of the same vein that preceded yours by many years.
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This is what would have happened to me if I had managed to create billions of real Dollars out of thin air.

And by 'bad end', I mean a complicated sexual mishap with several callgirls and a pound of cocaine in the back of a limousine.
 
I think the hype is over and isn't coming back.

I don't see it being used as a currency, I don't see innovations that make it worth more.

So, I think there is one more chance for a surge: a stock market crash. I can maybe see people wanting to frantically look for the exits if there is a crash and flee to gold and -maybe- Bitcoin.
 
Eddie Dane said:
I think the hype is over and isn't coming back.

I don't see it being used as a currency, I don't see innovations that make it worth more.

So, I think there is one more chance for a surge: a stock market crash. I can maybe see people wanting to frantically look for the exits if there is a crash and flee to gold and -maybe- Bitcoin.
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People are using it as a currency today.
 
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