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Cont: Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday pt 2

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Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

"Wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who has represented Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole and many other top political people and campaigns. Didn’t know Manafort was the head of the Mob. What about Comey and Crooked Hillary and all of the others? Very unfair!"

He was not sentenced. The judge revoked his bail, sending him to jail before trial, because he allegedly committed more crimes while on house arrest.
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Reality is as Trump perceives it.
 
The Big Dog said:
Oh I didn't respond to the post? Well it was just copy pasta of arguments from Mueller's arguments and thus a waste of time. I posted the defendants response which nuked it from orbit, y'all get a chance to read that?

And yes, the judge did not grant Mueller's motion and just kicked the can down the road.
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Tsukasa Buddha said:
Amazing.
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Not amazing at all. By the way I took the time to post my entire post which you unsurprisingly deleted.

Did you read the response yet?
 
davefoc said:
A good point. Although it is not clear, short of evidence for an unambiguous quid pro quo, that this kind of thing can be prosecuted...
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I find it hard to believe that a quid pro quo agreement would be documented in writing. I tend to think it would be a wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of thing. But then again, with dim bulbs such as the Trumps ("I love it")...
 
Trump Tweets

"The IG Report totally destroys James Comey and all of his minions including the great lovers, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, who started the disgraceful Witch Hunt against so many innocent people. It will go down as a dark and dangerous period in American History!"
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

"The IG Report totally destroys James Comey and all of his minions including the great lovers, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, who started the disgraceful Witch Hunt against so many innocent people. It will go down as a dark and dangerous period in American History!"
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I think the Conservative Treehouse guy is now writing Trump's tweets for him.
 
Paul Manafort in jail, Michael Flynn guilty plea will go to prison, Rick Gates guilty plea will go to prison, Papadopoulos guilty plea, will go to prison, Michael Cohen will be arrested within days, Roger Stone will be arrested soon.

So much winning!
 
No one in the news media has yet called Trump on this one:

Trump saying it was unfair to go back 12 years to get things on Manafort as if you get away with something for 12 years it is no longer a crime.
 
varwoche said:
I find it hard to believe that a quid pro quo agreement would be documented in writing. I tend to think it would be a wink-wink, nudge-nudge sort of thing. But then again, with dim bulbs such as the Trumps ("I love it")...
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Yes, this kind of thing is one of the reasons that I think it is difficult to predict how this goes for Trump.


ETA: Another issue here, I think, is that some of the crimes that Trump might be guilty of are the kind of crimes that partisans aren't all that opposed to. If Trump cheated or broke laws to win the election his supporters aren't going to be all that upset. They wanted him to win and he won. They're happy. I think this is an area where there is symmetry between Republican and Democratic voters. If at the end of this investigation all there is against Trump is strong evidence of direct campaign law violations I don't think the Republicans will vote to impeach him.
 
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davefoc said:
... If at the end of this investigation all there is against Trump is strong evidence of direct campaign law violations I don't think the Republicans will vote to impeach him.
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So you don't expect they are uncovering tax fraud, money laundering, accepting bribes, and violating the Emoluments Clause? As for not touching Trump, if his kids are charged you know he'll pardon them and the GOP won't care.

Do comments like Trump complaining how unfair it was that the feds went back 12 years looking at Manafort's crimes make you wonder if that isn't because the whole Trump enterprise has been a criminal empire for decades?

I don't expect the GOP legislators to impeach Trump no matter the crimes Mueller uncovers. They've already shown their hands repeating Trump's talking points about the immigration travesty. They've shown their hands through the House Intelligence Committee investigation, whitewashed by Nunes and allowed by Ryan.

The right-wing was willing to pounce on Clinton (Bill) for a pretty minor perjury charge, lying about an affair. But you wait, despite what looks to be some serious crimes here, the GOP will look the other way.
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Paul Manafort in jail, Michael Flynn guilty plea will go to prison, Rick Gates guilty plea will go to prison, Papadopoulos guilty plea, will go to prison, Michael Cohen will be arrested within days, Roger Stone will be arrested soon.

So much winning!
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All will be pardoned IMO - none will serve any time. :(
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
So you don't expect they are uncovering tax fraud, money laundering, accepting bribes, and violating the Emoluments Clause? As for not touching Trump, if his kids are charged you know he'll pardon them and the GOP won't care...
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I really don't know what the evidence against Trump is right now or for what crimes. I think Trump has routinely broken laws throughout his life in all kinds of ways. There are many issues as to whether this kind of stuff will lead to his being forced out of office.
1. As I mentioned above, crimes that were for the purpose of getting him elected will be largely excused by his supporters. Impeachment/forcing a president out of office is political and absolute proof of this kind of crimes might not be enough to lead to the forced removal of Trump from office.
2. Unequivocal proof of quid pro quo arrangements with the Russians would probably lead to the forced removal of Trump from office, but this kind of crime is difficult to prove in unequivocal ways and any wiggle room will be enough for Trump's supporters on this.
3. There may be evidence of Trump's cooperation with organized crime. This might be accepted by partisans as Trump just acting in the way that was necessary for the kind of business he was in. Not enough is known about this right now to make a very good guess IMO.
4. There probably is more evidence to come out of Trump's racist chit chat and Trump's misogynistic ways. A lot of Trump's supporters are mildly to strongly racist so this won't bother them all that much. More Trump racism will make it difficult for Fox News because advertisers who are trying to sell stuff to everybody won't subsidize Fox News support of a racist president.
5. Trump's relentless corruption with regard to the way he exploits the presidency to line his pockets is unlikely to do him in IMO. The Republicans have essentially acted to allow it. It is hardly any kind of crime if it is accepted by congress. He might lose some court decisions on this but they won't do him in IMO.
6. Trump seems to have violated some laws with regard to his willingness to do business with Ukrainian and Russian organized crime. I don't think enough is known publicly about this to make reasoned guesses as to how this might go. Cohen and potentially Manafort probably know what the extent of Trump's crimes are with regard to this. It may not be essential that either of them flips on Trump to do Trump in. There may be enough evidence on this with what was seized from Manafort and Cohen to do Trump in or possibly not.
7. Various income tax violations are another area where Trump might be at risk because most people don't honestly report their income from illegal activities. Again not enough information about this is public right now, but doing Trump in for income tax violations doesn't seem likely to me.
ETA: I should have added his foundation BS to the list
8. Trump and his children are in trouble because of his foundation shenanigans. It will be embarrassing for Trump and dangling pardons can't help him because a state is prosecuting this. I don't expect this to do him in either though. He will try to pay some fines and end it. He will falsely claim it is a political prosecution (he's already doing that) and that will be enough for his supporters. While he is in office the state can't prosecute him anyway, but the prosecutions of his children will be interesting.
 
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davefoc said:
If Trump cheated or broke laws to win the election his supporters aren't going to be all that upset. They wanted him to win and he won. They're happy. I think this is an area where there is symmetry between Republican and Democratic voters. If at the end of this investigation all there is against Trump is strong evidence of direct campaign law violations I don't think the Republicans will vote to impeach him.
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Democrat supporters are upset because he won playing their dirty game. A traditional Republican cuck would've just taken a beating, but Trump punched back. He didn't collude with Russia, but if he had it's totally forgivable and OK. In fact, it would've been the patriotic thing to do. Better Putin than Clinton.
 
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