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Brexit: Now What? Part IV

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The Don said:
I don't think so, I think it's independent....

http://theoldwellinn.co.uk/

It's really strange starting to become semi-regular (we've been in about half a dozen times in the last three months) in a pub where you spent the majority of your youth. It's been completely revamped and redecorated but food and beer is as good as it was 30+ years ago.

We're now timing our visits to my dad to make sure we can make Thursday night open-mics...:o
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I like the Horseshoes when I am in BC.

My current fave place is the Royal George in Staithes.
 
Looks like the Tory "rebels" (if that's not an oxymoron) are having buyers' remorse.

Seems like what they were promised verbally is not what they got - I refer you to Sam Goldwyn's sage advice regarding verbal contracts....

The government's compromise to avoid a Commons defeat on Brexit has been rejected as "unacceptable" by leading rebel Dominic Grieve.

Theresa May had convinced most rebels - who want MPs to have the final say - to back her in a key vote on Tuesday night by giving them assurances.

But the wording of the promised compromise has now been published.

Mr Grieve, who had talks on Thursday with ministers, said he could not understand why the change was made.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44482652

..because Mr Grieve, Theresa May has always been a Brexiteer. Her support of the Remain campaign was tactical. You've been stitched up like a kipper - if you need sympathy and support, Nick Clegg feels your pain :rolleyes:
 
Information Analyst said:
And yet the closest we can get to returning to the conditions of Common Market days is still rejected by hard-line Leave supporters, and they're the ones pulling the government's strings.
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I don't think that's right. The common market had rules for the free movement of qualified skilled workers, but free movement for all EU citizens wasn't introduced until the Maastricht Treaty in 1992.

One of the main reasons that a large number of voters cast their vote for leave was to stop free movement of EU citizens into the UK. Cameron had tentatively tried to restrict this free movement somewhat, as part of his 'renegotiation' - but there was no significant change offered by the EU: if a little more had been offered it would have most likely swung the vote in favour of remain - but now we shall never know.

The 'closest we can get' deal you refer to won't end free movement, so is unacceptable to many leave voters still.
 
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ceptimus said:
I don't think that's right. The common market had rules for the free movement of qualified skilled workers, but free movement for all EU citizens wasn't introduced until the Maastricht Treaty in 1992.

One of the main reasons that a large number of voters cast their vote for leave was to stop free movement of EU citizens into the UK. Cameron had tentatively tried to restrict this free movement somewhat, as part of his 'renegotiation' - but there was no significant change offered by the EU: if a little more had been offered it would have most likely swung the vote in favour of remain - but now we shall never know.

The 'closest we can get' deal you refer to won't end free movement, so is unacceptable to many leave voters still.
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A big problem with the "qualified, skilled workers" requirement is that maintains a disequilibrium of the same. It can even exacerbate it since the narrow few examples any lower-tier countries have go away, not to return.

Free movement has seen workers on seasonal migratory patterns that act as knowledge conduits, skills are transmitted to both the travellers themselves and then onto those who stayed put, as well.
 
fagin said:
82 pages and you finally admit to xenophobia.

Well done.

You do realise that most 'darkies' are not from the EU?
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You're ascribing an 'admittance' to me that I never gave. Please retract.

It's much better if you stick to the argument rather than trying to attack other posters. That's why the forum rules encourage / enforce it.
 
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ceptimus said:
I don't think that's right. The common market had rules for the free movement of qualified skilled workers, but free movement for all EU citizens wasn't introduced until the Maastricht Treaty in 1992.

One of the main reasons that a large number of voters cast their vote for leave was to stop free movement of EU citizens into the UK. Cameron had tentatively tried to restrict this free movement somewhat, as part of his 'renegotiation' - but there was no significant change offered by the EU: if a little more had been offered it would have most likely swung the vote in favour of remain - but now we shall never know.

The 'closest we can get' deal you refer to won't end free movement, so is unacceptable to many leave voters still.
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No, because contrary to what many Leave supporters think, it is not possible to have our cake, eat it, and save a bit for later.

Also, it seems that free movement was not the lynchpin for Leave voters as you claim. A YouGov poll after the referendum found that 69% of all respondents - and 60% of those who were Leave voters - agreed with the following statement:

"In negotiating Britain’s departure from the European Union, do you think our government should offer EU citizens the right to travel, work, study or retire in Britain, in exchange for EU countries giving British citizens the same rights?"

This would suggest, at the very least, that if people voted becauyse of "free movement," a lot of them didn't understand what is actually meant by that term.
 
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It's the unskilled fruit and veg pickers that we need. The seasonal workers who come over, do the work and then go home again.
No one else wants to do it.
 
Information Analyst said:
Also, it seems that free movement was not the lynchpin for Leave voters as you claim. A YouGov poll after the referendum found that 69% of all respondents - and 60% of those who were Leave voters - agreed with the following statement:

"In negotiating Britain’s departure from the European Union, do you think our government should offer EU citizens the right to travel, work, study or retire in Britain, in exchange for EU countries giving British citizens the same rights?"

This would suggest, at the very least, that if people voted becauyse of "free movement," a lot of them didn't understand what is actually meant by that term.
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Small nitpick - the wording of that question could be interpreted as the British government setting the applicable rules, and the EU reciprocating, rather than the other way round in EU "four freedoms".
 
quadraginta said:
Anyone who thinks that picking fruits and vegetables is "unskilled" has never done it.

If they were to try they'd be in for a very rude awakening.
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Unskilled : Uses skills I don't personally possess or appreciate

It's one of those irregular terms like "hard work".
 
I'm starting to like Brexit. 7000 people joined the SNP this week after the Tories and Labour conspired to tear up the devolution settlement and the SNP walked out of the Commons.

The English nationalist Leavers may get their dream after all.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
Unskilled : Uses skills I don't personally possess or appreciate

It's one of those irregular terms like "hard work".
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Unfortunately, like it or not and whether it's factually true, AFAIK fruit pickers are classed as unskilled labour by the UK for immigration purposes.
 
Fruit picking is a skill you can pick up in a week or so providing you are fit and keen. So not really a skill in the usual sense of the word, but it is undoubtedly very hard work.
 
And Britain's Brexit masterplan is revealed.

The more cynical observers suspect that Theresa May is ultimately using the domestic turmoil as cover to delay and prevaricate on the backstop until the last minute, hoping that Ireland will come under pressure in October from other member states.

Irish sources say they have been informed via European capitals that British officials have been briefing against Ireland, hoping to diminish support for Ireland’s case.

"It was felt for some time that if they could just get through June," says an Irish source, "and then use the time pressure of October, which would, in their view, result in pressure coming on Ireland from other member states.

"We’re not naive about it, but I do think they’re misreading that."
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https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0615/970823-tony-connelly-brexit/

In the unlikely event that their divide and conquer tactics work, the Irish government will have to be prepared to use their veto.
 
A slightly different view on Ireland's position:

So when Theresa May last week proposed that special arrangements to keep Northern Ireland under customs union and single market rules could be extended to the rest of the UK – avoiding any barriers to Irish-British trade as well as between the Republic and the North – Dublin liked what it heard.

Michel Barnier, however, did not. After a cautious welcome from Dublin, Mr Barnier made it clear that the plan would not fly with Brussels: it was cherrypicking, the EU’s term for taking benefits of the single market without its rules and obligations.

So where is the need for substantial progress now? Barnier’s firm rejection of the British proposals took Dublin aback, Ministers and senior officials admit privately.
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As this dynamic develops in the coming weeks, the Irish position – and the question of where Irish interests lie – will become less straightforward. How far can May be pushed? Should Ireland tone down its requirements for progress on the Border to keep the show on the road, or is it better – as one senior official suggests – to have a crisis sooner rather than later, in the hope that it would resolve the question of the Border? These judgments will be made in Brussels. But they will be made in Dublin, too.
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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-forced-to-play-both-sides-in-messy-brexit-divorce-1.3532209
 
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