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The Trump Presidency VII

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Molinaro said:
Why?

It is absurd for a consumer to want to pay so little for a product that the producer will end up going out of business. That is what would happen to Canadian producers if the price was dropped to the US rate.

The alternative, is for a consumer to want to pay so little for the product that the Government has to step in and subsidize 3/4 of the producer's income to keep them in business. That is what is happening in the US.

How is either of those 2 options any good for the consumer?

I have absolutely no problem paying whatever is appropriate for a business to stay in business without needing subsidies.
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The reality is that at the same time that farmers are getting squeezed to the point where they are completely dependant on subsidies, the consumer isn't getting that much cheaper of a price. Those along the supply chain between the producer and the consumer have consolidated and squeeze both ends to reap profits.

What Canada has is price stability which allows farmers to engage in long-term planning. So, as the article I link to here shows, Canadian farmers modernize, build new barns, employ robotic technology, while Australian farmers can't plan ahead, feast when times are good, and go into starvation mode when times are not good. The former helps create a healthier society.
 
Molinaro said:
Then again, there are people who are pro-welfare state. I guess I should not be surprised to see it passed off as the rational position.
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What is your understanding of the term "welfare state"? Do you presume it to be a bad thing?

Also - I'm wondering if WIC and school lunches count as dairy subsidies. The federal government buys a lot of milk.
 
Blue Mountain said:
Correction: Canada imposes very large tariffs on dairy after a certain import quota is met, between 201% and 313% (source.)
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These are not tariffs they are soft quota's. from your link.

Before those quotas are met, dairy products enter Canada duty-free or subject to much lower rates.
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In fact Canada allows more dairy products in tariff free from the US than the US allows tariff free from Canada. This, along with the massive subsidies the US gives it's dairy farmers is why the US has a surplus with Canada in dairy trade.
 
TofuFighter said:
Snopes confirmed (two days ago - presumably because the quote is doing the rounds) that this was part of a Reagan speech.

The fuller transcript is worth reading.
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Indeed it is.

This part might be more than worrisome considering the mindset of our current POTUS;

Part of the difficulty in accepting the good news about trade is in our words. We too often talk about trade while using the vocabulary of war. In war, for one side to win, the other must lose. But commerce is not warfare. Trade is an economic alliance that benefits both countries. There are no losers, only winners. And trade helps strengthen the free world.
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This is a perspective which is antithetical to everything which Trump has ever exhibited in his entire career.

I don't think he can even conceive of an agreement which is not zero-sum. Someone has to win, and someone has to lose. Any other outcome is anathema.

And if he, personally, doesn't win then, of course, he is the loser. Which cannot be endured.
 
Oystein said:
This bears repeating: by saying that he'd happily bin the new tarriffs if the other countries removed alleged unfair trade barriers, Trump denies that he imposes for reasons of national security. I hope the WTO spots that as well and rules accordingly.
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acbytesla said:
I do feel bad for Canadian consumers on this. I do have to wonder though that if say suddenly tomorrow the tariff was eliminated what would the effect be on the Canadian dairy industry and how much prices of milk would rise in the US? Simple supply and demand would probably mean that prices would rise in the US.
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Trump could just pledge to stop all U.S. dairy subsidies if Canada would agree to eliminating it's dairy tariffs.

That ought to make him real popular with the U.S. dairy industry. How could they object to that? Free market capitalism at its purest. Level playing field and all that stuff.

Just what he's asking for.
 
Minoosh said:
So Trump tweeted that the tariffs on steel and aluminum are payback for the tariffs on dairy - but I thought it was national security.

No, with Trump it's all about payback and he had to make sure the whole world knew. Trudeau's comment was extremely understated, mild-mannered and consistent with past statements. But it sure got Trump's undies in a bunch.
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Revenge as statecraft.

What could go wrong?
 
Molinaro said:
Then again, there are people who are pro-welfare state. I guess I should not be surprised to see it passed off as the rational position.
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The rational position is to allow settlers, backed by troops, to take land from savages by force so they can prosper. As the territory between just east of the Appalachians to just west of the Rockies is all backward and anti-science, pumping poison into the atmosphere and destroying the last remaining ecosystems, the urban unemployed now have the same opportunities Europe's unemployed -- true early Americans -- had. Civilize the planet!

Prosperity is a function of hard work, and crime. Unemployment, fixed!

The conquered can work for tips, no salary, another wonderful measure those who have declined into savagery - sad! - knew so well. Savages, of course, need and deserve no more.
 
acbytesla said:
I just checked the price difference between a quart (33.3 (imperial oz) of whole fat milk in Seattle $.99 US and 1 liter 35.19 (imperial oz) in Vancouver BC Canada $2.98 US. That is a pretty staggering difference.
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There's also the possibility milk (and other) prices in Blaine are artificially low to entice Canadians into crossing the border to shop.

Wayward son said:
I just compared the cost of 4 litres of 2% milk at Walmart in Toronto ($4.27) to the cost of a gallon of 2% milk at Walmart in Buffalo ($2.79). When you adjust for the exchange rate and the difference in size (a US gallon is 3.78L), the equivalent of a gallon from Walmart in Toronto would be $3.11 USD.

So 11% more. Considering Canadians are not paying taxes to subsidize their dairy industry it seems like a good deal.

I have spent many years living in both the US and Canada and I have never really noticed a difference in price between the two.
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Years ago I wrote a little program to compare gas prices between Canada and the US. Because gas and milk are both fluids, the calculator works for either. $US 2.79 for a US gallon at the current exchange rate (1 USD = 0.769080 CAD) is the equivalent to $C 0.958/litre, or $3.83 for four litres. Given that the actual Canadian price is $C 4.27, Canadians are paying $C 0.44 more for those 4 litres than they would in the States, which is 11.5%— the same number you arrived at.
 
lomiller said:
Blue Mountain said:
Correction: Canada imposes very large tariffs on dairy after a certain import quota is met, between 201% and 313% (source.)
Click to expand...
These are not tariffs they are soft quota's. from your link.

Before those quotas are met, dairy products enter Canada duty-free or subject to much lower rates.
Click to expand...

In fact Canada allows more dairy products in tariff free from the US than the US allows tariff free from Canada. This, along with the massive subsidies the US gives it's dairy farmers is why the US has a surplus with Canada in dairy trade.
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Correct. In what way does my statement differ from yours?
 
Something that seems to have been snuck out while everyone was focused on the summit:

US asylum: Domestic and gang violence cases 'no longer generally qualify'

The US attorney general has ruled that victims of domestic abuse and gang violence should no longer generally qualify for asylum in the US.
Jeff Sessions' ruling overturns a 2016 decision which granted asylum to a woman from El Salvador who had been raped and abused by her husband.
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So instead of deporting gang members just deport their victims.
 
Trump on De Niro

"Robert De Niro, a very Low IQ individual, has received to many shots to the head by real boxers in movies. I watched him last night and truly believe he may be “punch-drunk.” I guess he doesn’t..."

"...realize the economy is the best it’s ever been with employment being at an all time high, and many companies pouring back into our country. Wake up Punchy!"
 
The Big Dog said:
I guess anti-vax handbag Robert Deniro is the belle of the latest Trump Derangement Ball
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Didn't realize De Niro was anti-vax. Bad on him.

Looks like he joins the ranks of some truly despicable people such as...
DONALD TRUMP!

From: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...th-injection-health-campaigners-a7580941.html
"Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases!”

The difference is, De Niro is not a politician, nor is he holding any elected office where whatever anti-science claims he makes can have an impact. On the other hand, Trump holds the office of the presidency. Which one is truly more dangerous?
 
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