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The Trump Presidency VII

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lomiller said:
Or you know, all about making up whatever at a moments notice.

Canada doesn’t actually impose tariffs on Dairy, rather it uses a supply management system to keep prices stable for both producers and consumers. The US, on the other hand let’s producers sell for whatever they want but gives them massive subsides on the back end to keep them viable in spite of selling their product at a loss.

The US system results in lower prices but also overproduction which is why the US has a surplus in Dairy trade overall. Canadian producers can’t compete with the subsidized prices of US producers on items that are not part of Canada’s supply management system.

In the absence of both supply management and subsidies the big winner is likely Western Canadian producers. Western Canada has much larger farms for better economies of scale and generally optimise for low cost over intensity. On unsubsidised unprotected trade they can almost always produce at a lower cost than the US or Eastern Canada.
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Correction: Canada imposes very large tariffs on dairy after a certain import quota is met, between 201% and 313% (source.)

What Canada doesn't do is provide direct government subsides to dairy, which can result in massive oversupply problems like the ones currently being experienced in the US. (Apparently the US dairy industry dumped more unsold milk last year than Canada produced.) The Canadian dairy market has supply-side management, which works out well for producers but not so much for consumers, since they foot the bill for both the production and the producers' apparently generous profits.
 
lomiller said:
Or you know, all about making up whatever at a moments notice.

Canada doesn’t actually impose tariffs on Dairy, rather it uses a supply management system to keep prices stable for both producers and consumers. The US, on the other hand let’s producers sell for whatever they want but gives them massive subsides on the back end to keep them viable in spite of selling their product at a loss.

The US system results in lower prices but also overproduction which is why the US has a surplus in Dairy trade overall. Canadian producers can’t compete with the subsidized prices of US producers on items that are not part of Canada’s supply management system.

In the absence of both supply management and subsidies the big winner is likely Western Canadian producers. Western Canada has much larger farms for better economies of scale and generally optimise for low cost over intensity. On unsubsidised unprotected trade they can almost always produce at a lower cost than the US or Eastern Canada.
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It just seems like a silly strategy that the US says, "we are going to tax our people to give you extremely cheap milk," and tell them no. Protecting dairy farms from the US makes as much sense as saying Canada is going to cut off US steel imports.
 
Blue Mountain said:
Correction: Canada imposes very large tariffs on dairy after a certain import quota is met, between 201% and 313% (source.)

What Canada doesn't do is provide direct government subsides to dairy, which can result in massive oversupply problems like the ones currently being experienced in the US. (Apparently the US dairy industry dumped more unsold milk last year than Canada produced.) The Canadian dairy market has supply-side management, which works out well for producers but not so much for consumers, since they foot the bill for both the production and the producers' apparently generous profits.
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I just checked the price difference between a quart (33.3 (imperial oz) of whole fat milk in Seattle $.99 US and 1 liter 35.19 (imperial oz) in Vancouver BC Canada $2.98 US. That is a pretty staggering difference.
 
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acbytesla said:
I just checked the price difference between a quart (33.3 (imperial oz) of whole fat milk in Seattle $.99 US and 1 liter 35.19 (imperial oz) in Vancouver BC Canada $2.98 US. That is a pretty staggering difference.
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Makes those dairy tariffs seem down right reasonable.
 
logger said:
You still don’t understand why he said it.
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Trump made up a reason after the fact to explain his own failure at the most basic of diplomacy. Don't pretend that your Russian whore is smart enough to have a game plan going in.

He ********** up the easiest of all diplomatic missions, *********** CANADA!!! Just try to fathom what a complete, mindless idiot you have to be to **** up our relationship with Canada.
 
Craig4 said:
Makes those dairy tariffs seem down right reasonable.
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I do feel bad for Canadian consumers on this. I do have to wonder though that if say suddenly tomorrow the tariff was eliminated what would the effect be on the Canadian dairy industry and how much prices of milk would rise in the US? Simple supply and demand would probably mean that prices would rise in the US.
 
acbytesla said:
I do feel bad for Canadian consumers on this.
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Why?

It is absurd for a consumer to want to pay so little for a product that the producer will end up going out of business. That is what would happen to Canadian producers if the price was dropped to the US rate.

The alternative, is for a consumer to want to pay so little for the product that the Government has to step in and subsidize 3/4 of the producer's income to keep them in business. That is what is happening in the US.

How is either of those 2 options any good for the consumer?

I have absolutely no problem paying whatever is appropriate for a business to stay in business without needing subsidies.
 
acbytesla said:
I just checked the price difference between a quart (33.3 (imperial oz) of whole fat milk in Seattle $.99 US and 1 liter 35.19 (imperial oz) in Vancouver BC Canada $2.98 US. That is a pretty staggering difference.
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I just compared the cost of 4 litres of 2% milk at Walmart in Toronto ($4.27) to the cost of a gallon of 2% milk at Walmart in Buffalo ($2.79). When you adjust for the exchange rate and the difference in size (a US gallon is 3.78L), the equivalent of a gallon from Walmart in Toronto would be $3.11 USD.

So 11% more. Considering Canadians are not paying taxes to subsidize their dairy industry it seems like a good deal.


I have spent many years living in both the US and Canada and I have never really noticed a difference in price between the two.
 
Molinaro said:
Why?

It is absurd for a consumer to want to pay so little for a product that the producer will end up going out of business. That is what would happen to Canadian producers if the price was dropped to the US rate.

The alternative, is for a consumer to want to pay so little for the product that the Government has to step in and subsidize 3/4 of the producer's income to keep them in business. That is what is happening in the US.

How is either of those 2 options any good for the consumer?

I have absolutely no problem paying whatever is appropriate for a business to stay in business without needing subsidies.
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Three things

Of course I want to pay nothing for everything. That is the rational position.

The former is an all right option as export subsidies from country X are net welfare gains for importing country Y.

The second case is great for the Canadian consumer, but bad for the US tax payer.
 
Wayward son said:
I just compared the cost of 4 litres of 2% milk at Walmart in Toronto ($4.27) to the cost of a gallon of 2% milk at Walmart in Buffalo ($2.79). When you adjust for the exchange rate and the difference in size (a US gallon is 3.78L), the equivalent of a gallon from Walmart in Toronto would be $3.11 USD.

So 11% more. Considering Canadians are not paying taxes to subsidize their dairy industry it seems like a good deal.

I have spent many years living in both the US and Canada and I have never really noticed a difference in price between the two.
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I wasn't making a comment about it. And that difference seems much better than my perfunctory check online.
 
Molinaro said:
Why?

It is absurd for a consumer to want to pay so little for a product that the producer will end up going out of business. That is what would happen to Canadian producers if the price was dropped to the US rate.

The alternative, is for a consumer to want to pay so little for the product that the Government has to step in and subsidize 3/4 of the producer's income to keep them in business. That is what is happening in the US.

How is either of those 2 options any good for the consumer?

I have absolutely no problem paying whatever is appropriate for a business to stay in business without needing subsidies.
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That's all fine and good If you can afford it. Money is entirely relative to how much you have. I have always viewed milk as a staple.
 
acbytesla said:
I wasn't making a comment about it. And that difference seems much better than my perfunctory check online.
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Sorry, I wasn't necessarily directing that comment, besides the price, towards you. But yes, in general the price differences are not that much.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Of course I want to pay nothing for everything. That is the rational position.
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It's not.

The former is an all right option as export subsidies from country X are net welfare gains for importing country Y.

The second case is great for the Canadian consumer, but bad for the US tax payer.
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Canadians disagree (every poll has shown this by a large margin).
 
BobTheCoward said:
Of course I want to pay nothing for everything. That is the rational position..
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This is not meant as a personal insult.

But that is nothing short of a child-like way of looking at the situation. There is nothing rational about it.
 
Wayward son said:
Sorry, I wasn't necessarily directing that comment, besides the price, towards you. But yes, in general the price differences are not that much.
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That's good to hear. It just seemed by my check the cost of milk was slightly less than triple what it is in the US which I viewed as a huge difference. Thanks for your post setting me straight.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
Reminds me of an informal motto we had when I worked for Dade County, FL...

"If its free, its for me!"
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Then again, there are people who are pro-welfare state. I guess I should not be surprised to see it passed off as the rational position.
 
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