Ed Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday

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davefoc said:
Hmm, I admit to having more feelings for logger than some other individual unknown to me, but he favors policies that will lead to major pain for others. Is it so unreasonable, in the spirit of this thread, to not feel all that bad for logger if he suffers a bit because of the policies of the guy he supports while he shows very little empathy for the people harmed by Trump's various appeals to racism or the people harmed by his silly trade policies or the dreamers who have worked to make a place for themselves in this country who are being rounded up by Trump?
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Is it unreasonable to not be sorry that someone who helped cause suffering to others also suffers because of their own mistakes and gullibility? As a general matter, no, it's actually quite reasonable. Even so, I, personally, bear no significant ill will towards logger. I would even be happy to be shown that I'm actually wrong about a bunch of things when it comes to the current administration, much as I really don't expect that to happen at this point.


davefoc said:
It is outside the scope of this thread but would Bernie Sanders be following a similar path as Trump is now with regard to trade wars?
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It's... certainly possible, but somewhat unlikely in my opinion. Even if he did, though, there's an excellent chance that the countries that have been friendly towards us would be handling it more nicely, given that he quite certainly wouldn't have been constantly slighting them for no good reason.
 
logger said:
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You’re also woefully uninformed about his policy’s and the people who support him. You’re just parroting the liberal left line. Funny how his fiscal irresponsibility has led to the best economy in years. But I suppose if you think his tax cut was for the wealthy, I’m not surprised at any of your disagreements with him.
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1. Bush II implemented similar tax cuts. At the end of Bush II's administration the country was involved in the worst recession of the last 70 years or so.


2. The norm is to credit/blame the president for the economy starting with the second year of his administration and ending with the second year of his replacement. For Obama this is the period from 2009 to 2017. In this time the unemployment rate fell from high of 10.0% in October of 2009 to a low of 4.1% at the end of 2017. The unemployment rate has fallen to 3.8% under Trump in 2018. However almost none of the effect of Trump's massive deficits or Trump's trade wars have had an effect yet.


A few other comments on the unemployment rate.
1. If the unemployment rate had risen in the first year of Trump's administration Fox News and other Republican partisans would have been on a 24/7 rant that it was Obama's fault. As it was when the unemployment rate continued to decline under Trump they credited Trump with responsibility for the decline. Intellectually dishonest for sure but partisans are easily swayed by intellectually dishonest BS.
2. Trump claimed that the unemployment rate under Obama was massive because of the large non-working portion of the population. This has not changed under Trump. Trump's criticism was essentially a lie. The high percentage of non-working people in the US is almost totally explained by the demographic change to an older population.
 
[Would Bernie Sanders have implemented trade policies similar to Trump's]
Aridas said:
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It's... certainly possible, but somewhat unlikely in my opinion. Even if he did, though, there's an excellent chance that the countries that have been friendly towards us would be handling it more nicely, given that he quite certainly wouldn't have been constantly slighting them for no good reason.
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I think it is unlikely as well. I doubt that he would have violated treaties and I think he might have negotiated for what he saw as incremental improvements when there was an opportunity to do so. He certainly wouldn't have bashed and insulted long time allies in the process. It is hard to know though, since both candidates advocated similar ideas on this. One thing for sure, the Republicans would have told him to pound sand if he had tried to start trade wars when they were in control.
 
Fudbucker said:
I don't know if it's illegal to get dirt from a foreign government in exchange of promises to be lenient to that government (e.g., "lift the Russian sanctions"), but I'm betting that kind of quid-pro-quo is also illegal.
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It is. It violates the Logan act.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Or he transferred the money from the government or something. I should have paid closer attention but she did say the money went from the ambassador to the Foundation.
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I thought this sounded a little unlikely, so had a quick search about it

As I thought, totally incorrect

Real news is that the Australian government has never given them any money directly, but it has worked in partnership with them, usually to the tune of 5-10 million a year, for the last decade (total of 75 million over that 10 year period which averages out to 7.5 million a year) delivering aid programs in various countries

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...n/news-story/0d42d915182072cd3f208d7906f4bc02
 
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1003296131059765248

MANAFORT and TRUMP "are literally living in the same building and...they go up and down all day long hanging and plotting together" -- text from one of Manafort's daughters to the other on 4/7/16, just days after their dad was hired by the campaign.

AND on 8/18/16, as MANAFORT was being pushed out of TRUMP campaign, his daughter texted a friend: "my dad resigned from being the public face of the campaign. But is still very much involved behind the scenes…Last nights speech was a speech my dad had been pushing him to make…"
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Also worth a read:

https://twitter.com/gregolear/status/1003404215799222272

Let's talk about Paul Manafort. (Trump sure seems to want to.)

[THREAD]
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davefoc said:
It is outside the scope of this thread but would Bernie Sanders be following a similar path as Trump is now with regard to trade wars?
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We can only guess, but I suspect he wouldn’t simply ignore deals already in place the way Trump is doing. I also suspect he wouldn't be targeting first world allies that have high wages and environmental standards.
 
The Don said:
It's a different world now. The GOP will always have enough power to quash any attempts to bring Donald Trump to justice (if cause is found to attempt to do so.
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Do they pay you to post such pessimistic stuff? There is a midterm coming. The GOP Party is shrinking and while there might be a lot of independents who are typical GOP voters, it does suggest there is a split in that party.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It is. It violates the Logan act.
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What the false equivalencers fail to understand as well, hiring a research company that hires an ex-British spy to investigate the Trump campaign's ties to Russia is not the same as "getting dirt", let alone hacked emails or other assistance from a foreign government.
 
Dabop said:
I thought this sounded a little unlikely, so had a quick search about it

As I thought, totally incorrect

Real news is that the Australian government has never given them any money directly, but it has worked in partnership with them, usually to the tune of 5-10 million a year, for the last decade (total of 75 million over that 10 year period which averages out to 7.5 million a year) delivering aid programs in various countries

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...n/news-story/0d42d915182072cd3f208d7906f4bc02
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Wow. That adds even more to the dishonesty of the CTers on Fox.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Do they pay you to post such pessimistic stuff?
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No

Skeptic Ginger said:
There is a midterm coming.
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I know and it's a midterm where electoral maths are against the Democratic Party in the Senate and voter suppression and gerrymandering is against them in the House. Personally, unless either the Democratic Party comes up with a slew of attractive policies and candidates and/or the economy tanks I don't see theme getting a majority in either - and certainly not the kind of supermajority which would allow them to push through indictment.


Skeptic Ginger said:
The GOP Party is shrinking and while there might be a lot of independents who are typical GOP voters, it does suggest there is a split in that party.
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President Trump is holding steady in the polls at around 40% of the electorate. Many voters simply don't care about his personal morality, his (in)effectiveness as President or what he's doing on a global stage. If they feel slightly better off than when he came into power then they'll need a jolly good reason to vote for the other party IMO.
 
Trump tweets

"As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong? In the meantime, the never ending Witch Hunt, led by 13 very Angry and Conflicted Democrats (& others) continues into the mid-terms!"
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump tweets

"As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong? In the meantime, the never ending Witch Hunt, led by 13 very Angry and Conflicted Democrats (& others) continues into the mid-terms!"
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Where’s The Dolt getting “13 very Angry and Conflicted Democrats” from?
 
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