Ed Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday

[logger]

I think it's very telling when you're handpicked Sec of State calls you an ****** moron and won't deny it. Have you ever seen that happen in any other presidency?

I’d love to know what it tells you?

 

[logger]

It's certainly illegal if that dirt came from an illegal process (hacking Podesta).

Would you have known where that dirt came from?

I don't know if it's illegal to get dirt from a foreign government in exchange of promises to be lenient to that government (e.g., "lift the Russian sanctions"), but I'm betting that kind of quid-pro-quo is also illegal.

But you haven’t a clue if that’s what happened.

Logger, doesn't it bother you the amount of crooks Trump surrounded himself with? Manafort, Gates, Flynn, Cohen... I know you would not tolerate that from Clinton.

Sure, but what if he didn’t know? Manafort and Gates were previous campaign advisors for other admins. Flynn I don’t believe is guilty of anything serious at all. The jury is out on Cohen and once again did Trump know?

 

[NoahFence]

Sure, but what if he didn’t know? Manafort and Gates were previous campaign advisors for other admins. Flynn I don’t believe is guilty of anything serious at all. The jury is out on Cohen and once again did Trump know?

if he didn't know, then he didn't vet them properly.

So he's either a crook like the rest of them, or an incompetent moron.
Either way, he's a fine representative of today's "right".

 

[davefoc]

I’ll show you how irrelevant they are by answering this way. No one is happy when the person they back gets into trouble or has negative things said about them.

A reasonable introspective thought.

But to ignore what this president has endured by people in government is also not good. The last part of those questions are seriously irrelevant and probably considered a personal attack.

I am not sure exactly what this means with regard to all this. Presumably the judge that decided against Trump in the case brought by the students enrolled in his second fake University scam is not part of the people involved in government that has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? Similarly the judge that ruled against Trump when he didn't pay his painting contractor is not part of the people involved in government that has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? Or the judge who ruled against him and sided with the stock and bond holders to prevent Trump from continuing to loot his casinos when they were in bankruptcy is not part of the people involved in government that has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government?

So is the installation of a special counsel part of what forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? If you'd been in charge you wouldn't have served a subpoena on Cohen or Manafort? Or is there something else that has gone on during the Mueller investigation that you think has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? Maybe it has been the treatment of Flynn that was unfair?

As an aside here, what I was particularly curious about when I posed the questions to you earlier was why you are a Trump supporter. Many Trump supporters are religious, support nativist ideas and/or are mildly to seriously racist. I presumed that you didn't fall into any of those groups which is what made me curious about what were the principle drivers of your support for Trump. He seems to be seriously opposed to free trade and is perhaps the most fiscally irresponsible president of my life. So some of the normal economic ideas that might lead to the support of a Republican president don't apply here. So I think my question is reasonable, although I will continue to refrain from the use of my super powers to force you to answer.

 

[davefoc]

...

Sure, but what if he didn’t know? Manafort and Gates were previous campaign advisors for other admins. Flynn I don’t believe is guilty of anything serious at all. The jury is out on Cohen and once again did Trump know?

This strikes me as a reasonable question and just posing it suggests some agreement with several of the posters in this thread including me.

Where there has been disagreement with you, it is that many of us see a lot of smoke here even if we haven't seen enough fire to conclude that Trump will be forced out or even that he should be.

It is fair to say that Trump's relentless lying and almost complete lack of personal ethics suggests to most of us that there is something here that could and should lead to actions to force Trump out. But even people like me that think it is an unequivocal fact that Trump fired Comey because Comey signaled he wouldn't play ball with regard to the Russian investigation are uncertain that this should be sufficient to force Trump out.

 

[logger]

A reasonable introspective thought.


I am not sure exactly what this means with regard to all this. Presumably the judge that decided against Trump in the case brought by the students enrolled in his second fake University scam is not part of the people involved in government that has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? Similarly the judge that ruled against Trump when he didn't pay his painting contractor is not part of the people involved in government that has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? Or the judge who ruled against him and sided with the stock and bond holders to prevent Trump from continuing to loot his casinos when they were in bankruptcy is not part of the people involved in government that has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government?

That would logically help you conclude my post on the government wouldn’t apply to those? Possibly?

So is the installation of a special counsel part of what forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? If you'd been in charge you wouldn't have served a subpoena on Cohen or Manafort? Or is there something else that has gone on during the Mueller investigation that you think has forced Trump to endure unfair actions by the government? Maybe it has been the treatment of Flynn that was unfair?

I didn’t realize you were so uninformed of what’s going on. Head over to my DOJ/FBI Scandel thread and have a read.

As an aside here, what I was particularly curious about when I posed the questions to you earlier was why you are a Trump supporter. Many Trump supporters are religious, support nativist ideas and/or are mildly to seriously racist. I presumed that you didn't fall into any of those groups which is what made me curious about what were the principle drivers of your support for Trump. He seems to be seriously opposed to free trade and is perhaps the most fiscally irresponsible president of my life. So some of the normal economic ideas that might lead to the support of a Republican president don't apply here. So I think my question is reasonable, although I will continue to refrain from the use of my super powers to force you to answer.

You’re also woefully uninformed about his policy’s and the people who support him. You’re just parroting the liberal left line. Funny how his fiscal irresponsibility has led to the best economy in years. But I suppose if you think his tax cut was for the wealthy, I’m not surprised at any of your disagreements with him.

 

[acbytesla]

Sure, but what if he didn’t know? Manafort and Gates were previous campaign advisors for other admins. Flynn I don’t believe is guilty of anything serious at all. The jury is out on Cohen and once again did Trump know?

What do you consider serious? Lying to Congress? Lying on Intelligence forms about his involvement with Turkey? I think Flynn and Manafort should go to prison. Probably Don Jr. as well.

Did Trump know about Cohen? What part? The selling of access that Cohen was doing
only a few doors down from Trump at Trump Tower? The problem is Cohen is a liar and Trump is a liar. Lets see what evidence is uncovered by the raid of Cohen.

Also, Trump was warned about Flynn and he totally ignored the warnings.

 

[logger]

This strikes me as a reasonable question and just posing it suggests some agreement with several of the posters in this thread including me.

Where there has been disagreement with you, it is that many of us see a lot of smoke here even if we haven't seen enough fire to conclude that Trump will be forced out or even that he should be.

It is fair to say that Trump's relentless lying and almost complete lack of personal ethics suggests to most of us that there is something here that could and should lead to actions to force Trump out. But even people like me that think it is an unequivocal fact that Trump fired Comey because Comey signaled he wouldn't play ball with regard to the Russian investigation are uncertain that this should be sufficient to force Trump out.

The only people able to force him out is the Senate, not going to happen. The obstruction charge is a joke.

 

[acbytesla]

The only people able to force him out is the Senate, not going to happen. The obstruction charge is a joke.

The obstruction charge is hardly a joke. It's damn clear by any honest assessment of Trump's actions including those he continues to make that Trump has been obstructing the investigation into Russia's meddling in US elections.

Bill Clinton said yesterday that if he was President and did the things Trump has done, there would be impeachment hearings going on right now. And I have little doubt that he is right.

 

[logger]

The obstruction charge is hardly a joke. It's damn clear by any honest assessment of Trump's actions including those he continues to make that Trump has been obstructing the investigation into Russia's meddling in US elections.

Firing Comey was not going to obstruct the investigation.

Bill Clinton said yesterday that if he was President and did the things Trump has done, there would be impeachment hearings going on right now. And I have little doubt that he is right.

Bill Clinton? Seriously?

I’d like to know what he would be impeached for? Oh right, being a meany head to the idiot emotional left.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Giuliani threatens to go to court if Mueller subpoenas Trump

Rudy Giuliani on Saturday threatened to take special counsel Robert Mueller to court if he attempts to issue a subpoena against President Trump.

"If Mueller tries to subpoena us, we're going to court," Giuliani said in an interview with ABC News. Giuliani, a former New York City mayor, joined Trump's legal team in April.

Giuliani’s warning arrived just hours after The New York Times revealed that Trump's lawyers sent Mueller a 20-page letter in January arguing that Trump couldn’t obstruct justice because he has unfettered authority over all federal investigations.

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ns-to-go-to-court-if-mueller-subpoenas-trump?

Ahhh, the good old, "If the President does it, then it's not illegal" defense. How well did that work out last time it was used?

 

[Aridas]

Would you have known where that dirt came from?

By the look of it, it was known. This question of yours is little more than a distraction.

But you haven’t a clue if that’s what happened.

There was intent to do so and action to try to do so. That's more than enough to be convicted for most crimes.

Sure, but what if he didn’t know?

Incredibly unlikely as that is, it would still speak to him doing a very bad job at picking even halfway decent people to do the job. And picking the best people is what he was supposedly going to do, right?

Either way, it's worth remembering that even when directly warned about serious security issues, Trump as both a candidate and as a President seems to consistently ignore the warnings until he feels that his hand is forced or if he thinks that he can make it fit into the narratives that he's pushing.

Flynn I don’t believe is guilty of anything serious at all.

You've been not hearing, are ignoring, or are giving Flynn quite the free pass, then. There's a number of things that he could have been charged for that are known in the public domain. What he's actually been charged for is minor, yes, and pretty obviously part of a plea bargain. Whether that bargain is directly relevant to the President or not is largely irrelevant to how much Flynn is actually guilty of.

The jury is out on Cohen and once again did Trump know?

The best people! As for the jury... well, the evidence on hand does seem quite damning, after all. The kind of damning that pretty much takes claims of massive conspiracy and denial of evidence to dismiss.



Going past that, an important point that I think far too many are mostly overlooking or forgetting is "Why did Trump actually run for President?" To enrich himself and popularize his brand is an obvious start. As part of revenge for a grilling he got from Obama at a Correspondents Dinner? That may well have played a fair part. There's a few things that likely played main roles, none of which are particularly good for the country.

 

[davefoc]

The only people able to force him out is the Senate, not going to happen. The obstruction charge is a joke.

It is a reasonable view that a Comey firing based obstruction charge is a joke, either because of a view based on a constitutional interpretation or a view based on the politics of the situation which suggests that Republicans would need much more than this to vote for a conviction in an impeachment proceeding.

The idea though, that Republicans won't force Trump out under some circumstances is not as reasonable. Nobody participating in this thread understands the evidence that exists against Trump right now. I am as skeptical of people that think he will be forced out for various actions that might be or have been uncovered as people that think he won't be.

The Mueller team has released very little information beyond what they have been forced to release. Trump is a lying, disgustingly corrupt individual. There is overwhelming evidence of that. It is not knowable right now whether those personal characteristics have resulted in actions that will lead to his being forced out of office.

If you turn out to be correct in that Trump is not forced out of office I would still say that you are wrong now in that there is not enough evidence to make an unequivocal prediction that Trump won't be forced out.

 

[logger]

Bill Clinton said yesterday that if he was President and did the things Trump has done, there would be impeachment hearings going on right now. And I have little doubt that he is right.

Lol

Bill Clinton also said the press went easy on Obama because they liked having the first black president.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018...-having-the-first-african-american-president/

 

[acbytesla]

Firing Comey was not going to obstruct the investigation.

He clearly thought it would.

Bill Clinton? Seriously?

I’d like to know what he would be impeached for? Oh right, being a meany head to the idiot emotional left.

Seriously.

 

[Aridas]

Firing Comey was not going to obstruct the investigation.

Intent tends to matter there more than effectiveness, you know?

It's not a particularly bad thing, itself, that Comey was removed. That the President officially lied and lied blatantly as to why the "showboat" was removed is much more problematic, there.

That is, of course, before getting to the fact that the part of the case for Obstruction of Justice related to Comey is a small fraction of the whole case.

 

[logger]

By the look of it, it was known. This question of yours is little more than a distraction.

I’ve never seen it mentioned that the honey pot wanted to talk about hacked emails from the Russian government.

 

[logger]

Intent tends to matter there more than effectiveness, you know?

It's not a particularly bad thing, itself, that Comey was removed. That the President officially lied and lied blatantly as to why the "showboat" was removed is much more problematic, there.

That is, of course, before getting to the fact that the part of the case for Obstruction of Justice related to Comey is a small fraction of the whole case.

If his removal does not affect the investigation, what is the intent?

 

[logger]

He clearly thought it would.

Why?

Think about this, you’re blinded by hating this man so much you don’t even realize there’s no way he could think that.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Bill Clinton said yesterday that if he was President and did the things Trump has done, there would be impeachment hearings going on right now. And I have little doubt that he is right.

I believe this would be true, even if Democrats controlled the Senate and the house with veto-proof majorities. But then again we're comparing people who feel no shame to non-Republicans.