Roseanne Barr off the air

[dann]

When the first hominins (human ancestors) began hunting and gathering on the open savannah, they lost their body hair, likely to keep cool amid the strenuous exercise of their lifestyle. These early humans probably had pale skin, much like humans' closest living relative, the chimpanzee, which is white under its fur. Around 1.2 million to 1.8 million years ago, early Homo sapiens evolved dark skin.
Odd Cause of Humans’ Dark Skin Proposed (Live Science, Feb. 25, 2014)

It's worth to remember that white, thin-lipped Europeans in this respect (lip size) look more like apes than thick-lipped black Africans do. And white people tend to be much hairier than most other ethnic groups (Wikipedia).

Cross-class alliances against declassed others are a hallmark of racism.
Theodore W. Allen once defined it as “the social death of racial oppression”, that is:
… the reduction of all members of the oppressed group to one undifferentiated social status, beneath that of any member of the oppressor group.
Comparing black people to monkeys has a long, dark simian history (The Conversation, Feb. 29, 2016

Whenever somebody says that the white race rules the USA, it should be pointed out to them that the white race as such rules nothing. It's just a way of making poor white people feel superior by association. (But also why they insist that black people have to 'know their place.' Poor white racists are in many ways victims of their own racism - and stil considered white trash by those who actually rule.)


A long Danish article about the cancellation of Roseanne: Working-Class Heroine or Racist? (dr.dk, May 30, 2018)

 

[The Don]

Having not learned the first rule of holes, she's still tweeting.

For her core demographic (and for that matter the GOP and President Trump's too), this is all grist to the mill.

If she just slunk away, she'd have got nothing. Now she has the support of The President, and by extension the GOP, and no doubt a lot of lucrative offers will be coming her way from media outlets and organisations which target her demographic.

 

[The Don]

She has lost her mainstream career. Time to start building that alt-right career. She's crazy, not lazy.

Give it time, the alt-right will soon be mainstream.

 

[luchog]

But the "since when" statement I was looking for an early representation of exactly this kind of humor. It certainly remained in popular culture in various forms even today.

A lot of these cartoons using old racists caricatures of black people were still being shown on broadcast television when I was a kid in the '70s and early '80s, at least on the syndicated stations.

 

[Matthew Best]

A lot of these cartoons using old racists caricatures of black people were still being shown on broadcast television when I was a kid in the '70s and early '80s, at least on the syndicated stations.

This is from 1978

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Apparently Samantha Bee called Ivanka a "feckless ****" last night during her piece about immigrants being separated from parents.

This is what the WH is pushing back with:

Sara Sanders:
“The language used by Samantha Bee last night is vile and vicious. The collective silence by the left and its media allies is appalling. Her disgusting comments and show are not fit for broadcast, and executives at Time Warner and TBS must demonstrate that such explicit profanity about female members of this administration will not be condoned on its network.”
(emphasis mine)

I don't see a single parallel with the Roseanne incident. I think SHS statement is completely unhinged and hypocritical.

Anyone want to help explain/defend this ?

Note:
I don't think this deserves a thread of it's own because it's clearly a direct response to this Rosanne debacle. If the mods feel it needs to be it's own thread, someone can report it and ask to have it moved.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Apparently Samantha Bee called Ivanka a "feckless ****" last night during her piece about immigrants being separated from parents.

This is what the WH is pushing back with:

Sara Sanders:
“The language used by Samantha Bee last night is vile and vicious. The collective silence by the left and its media allies is appalling. Her disgusting comments and show are not fit for broadcast, and executives at Time Warner and TBS must demonstrate that such explicit profanity about female members of this administration will not be condoned on its network.”
(emphasis mine)

I don't see a single parallel with the Roseanne incident. I think SHS statement is completely unhinged and hypocritical.

Anyone want to help explain/defend this ?

Note:
I don't think this deserves a thread of it's own because it's clearly a direct response to this Rosanne debacle. If the mods feel it needs to be it's own thread, someone can report it and ask to have it moved.

We kind of have to start at the beginning of this to reach there. What do you see as the problem with comparing a black person to a private?

 

[dann]

I'm not sure about this, but I don't think that racial caricatures ever managed to make me the least bit racist. As a child, I read a lot of Carl Barks, for instance, and he didn't seem to have any problem with caricatures of Africans or Asians. And he got away with it, maybe because the moral of his stories wasn't racist - at least not AFAIR.

Look at Crumb's drawings from the 1960s (which I think were meant to be parodies of the racial caricatures of earlier times) and compare them with this Cuban mural from this millennium, for instance, which I was told was made by an Afro-Cuban artist to celebrate Afro-Cuban contributions to the music of Cuba. It doesn't seem to bother neither white nor black Cubans, probably because it isn't meant to be racist. Context matters.
The same mural at a Nazi compound, however, ...

I've been trying to find caricatures of white people, but I've only managed to find caricatures of individual white persons, not caricatures of the white race as such.

 

[dann]

This is from 1978

But ...

The show's premise began to be seen as offensive on account of its portrayal of blacked-up characters behaving in a stereotypical manner, and a petition against it was received by the BBC in 1967. In 1969, due to continuing accusations of racism, Music Music Music, a spin-off series in which the minstrels appeared without their blackface make-up, replaced The Black and White Minstrel Show. It did well, with viewing figures to match the Minstrels, but the BBC weren't happy and The Black and White Minstrel Show returned to win back viewers.
Since its cancellation in 1978, The Black and White Minstrel Show has come to be seen more widely as an embarrassment, despite its huge popularity at the time.
Wikipedia

 

[sadhatter]

ABC should bring back the show for next season. New premise: The family tries to adjust to life without their matriarch who is serving life in prison after intentionally running down a minority person.

God I hate this.

I see this all the time when people **** up (and the reverse when a liked actor had a character die or act in a certain way) and it gives me such second hand embarrassment.

Characters on television are fictional, to hate them as you would hate a real person is childish as hell. And to want them to suffer because of real life actions is a combination of twisted and sad that really makes me think people need to step away from the television, and interact more in real life.

 

[Fudbucker]

Apparently Samantha Bee called Ivanka a "feckless ****" last night during her piece about immigrants being separated from parents.

This is what the WH is pushing back with:

Sara Sanders:
“The language used by Samantha Bee last night is vile and vicious. The collective silence by the left and its media allies is appalling. Her disgusting comments and show are not fit for broadcast, and executives at Time Warner and TBS must demonstrate that such explicit profanity about female members of this administration will not be condoned on its network.”
(emphasis mine)

I don't see a single parallel with the Roseanne incident. I think SHS statement is completely unhinged and hypocritical.

Anyone want to help explain/defend this ?

Note:
I don't think this deserves a thread of it's own because it's clearly a direct response to this Rosanne debacle. If the mods feel it needs to be it's own thread, someone can report it and ask to have it moved.

Of course it's not the same. It is incredibly tasteless, but then so is making fun of disabled reporters and Ted Cruz's wife. Samantha Bee just apologized.

 

[sadhatter]

I feel that it could not be accomplished with this here and now. We are seeing complete excism nowadays. A person immediately becomes a cancer and every trace of them is removed as if done with a scalpel. ABC will not continue the show because it is related to Roseanne.

I feel that things that "worked out okay" in the 80s will not work at all now. Society and culture has changed and certain doors are now shut.

Barr still has a career because she has talents but it won't be on network television. She would now pack the house in live stand-up comedy and theater but only when it's marketed at a narrow demographic.

We judge everyone based on their worst action now.

And beyond that we consistently lower the bar on what a horrible action is.

It's mostly affecting the elite at the moment, but is slowly creeping in to the lives of regular people. If anyone thinks they wouldn't be ********** under these rules they are lying to themselves.

 

[Armitage72]

I wonder what the odds are that the White House thinks "feckless" is profanity too.

 

[sadhatter]

I think I can see both sides.

I just mentioned this debate to Karen. Her first reaction was that both instances are equally childish name-calling and should be treated equally.

But then saw that calling our grandchild with climbing abilities “a little monkey” was perfectly innocent. To say the same about a black child could be offensive, even if not meant that way.

As an aside, Karen agreed to be my monkey as part of our wedding vows. Monkey is a slang term for a motorcycle sidecar passenger. Zero racial component as far as I know.

(Rosanne meant it is taken imho)

Should there be a penalty social or otherwise for being accidentally offensive? That seems to be the crux of the issue lately.

 

[sadhatter]

Yes. The bitch was double-dipping on the racial/ethnic/religious insults. But, again, that won't stop some of the usual suspects. They'll continue to pretend that there's some non-racist explanation for her words and that the negative reaction is inauthentic, part of a plot to keep the poor white folks down.

Gendered insults are okay though?

**** her and all but hypocrisy hurts the cause.

 

[sadhatter]

I agree. In fact, I often prefer the use of the word "bigotry" over "racism" for just that reason, and also because it avoids the inevitable sidetrack into a nitpicking dictionary battle over what is or isn't "racist".

But jokes about Trump aren't bigotry. They aren't about a class of people, they are about Trump.

They may be a lot of things, and many of those may deserve condemnation, but bigotry isn't among them.

A lot of jokes toward trump are toward his supporters, who are a rather ethnically non diverse group. Would that not be considered bigotry?

Personally I say either take a joke or don't give a **** what idiots are saying. But as you seem to be of a different opinion, wondering where you draw your lines.

 

[sadhatter]

I don't want to add kindling to yet another wonderful discussion of race relations in America but... Roseanne has been a full on functionally insane basketcase since the first run of her show. I mean after she's spend the last few months attacking school shooting victims for being crisis actors and ranting about the secret pedophile ring shadow government running everything... yeah racism that's the line. Sure let's go with that.

It's like that incident we talked about on this board a while back where the guy on the airplane punched the baby and hurled racial epitaphs at the baby's mother his lawyer went on TV to basically saw "Hey now wait a minute, my client might be a baby puncher but he definitely isn't a racist baby puncher!"

Yeah, we don't care if someone is horrible, just if they are breaking the current outrage of the week.

Let's pat ourselves on the back for giving Rosanne the business but be totally cool with the legions of idiots hawking **** from vaginal eggs to autism cures who are doing real direct harm. More important to punish someone for a twitter post.

And I mean why would we try that hard otherwise? No one is going to loudly praise you for that kind of activism, in fact a lot of people would be unhappy with you. And what is activism about if not being part of a group.

 

[sadhatter]

Since when is equating a black person to a primate considered "comedy" and "a funny joke"?

Did I miss the memo ?


Newsflash for those who possess an IQ that falls on the wrong side of the bell curve:

Equating a person of colour to a monkey has never been "a joke", has never been "funny", and has never been considered "comedy".

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No need to thank me for your newfound education on life, I'm glad that I could be of some help.

Or you could just send me money.

Either way:
You're welcome.

Re write history much?

Racist jokes have always been a thing. A horrible thing, but many people historically and currently are that brand of *******.

I appreciate your vigor, but outright trying to pretend history didn't happen hurts the cause.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I wonder what the odds are that the White House thinks "feckless" is profanity too.

It's the kind of word a thespian would use, if you know what I mean.

 

[dudalb]

Twitter: giving Celebs a whole new way to self destruct.
It's a PR's person's nightmare;One of the main jobs of a PR person is to save their client from themselves, and Twitter has made that almost impossible.