Ed Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday

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Skeptic Ginger said:
Don Jr spoke to someone after the Trump Tower meeting he claims he can't remember whose blocked phone number he called. :rolleyes:

Trump was involved in writing up Don Jr's dishonest response that the meeting was about adoption.

You think Donnie Jr kept that meeting from Trump Sr? It's not credible.

The latest story after the adoption lie was busted, is that they didn't get any dirt. That's not any more credible than the adoption lie. They didn't need to get the emails themselves, just a plan about when and where to make them public. "Especially later in the summer," read Don Jr's email.

Papadopoulos spilled the beans about the Russians hacking DNC/Clinton emails to the Aussie ambassador in a bar. You think he wouldn't have told Trump?

There are a dozen other Trump connections to Russia, for example: changing the GOP Platform. Think Trump just requested that because Manafort said to? Or that Trump had nothing to do with it?


If you put everything together, it's simply not credible this all went on without Trump knowing about it.
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You and I are not discussing the same thing. I was discussing how I thought this might go and I said that I don't think there is enough information available to be able to figure that out.

If the issue is what I suspect then Trump is toast. There is enough evidence available to make a few reasonable estimates of some of the illegal stuff Trump has done.

However my view is that Trump is safe as long as Fox News continues to shill for him. So for me the issue is what kind of explicit unequivocal evidence exists that would make it such it is no longer in Fox News's interest to shill for Trump and does that kind of evidence exist.

Fox News is a phenomena. It functions like it was a government owned propaganda platform while being a private company. It is making a fortune with its connection to Trump and by pandering to the base that he has energized. It will not abandon this cash cow until absolutely forced to. Fox News largely controls the national Republican Party today and any removal of Trump will require some cooperation from a part of the Republican Party so Fox News will play a key role in the decision of whether to remove Trump from power or not. Fox News may have more political power than any media company has ever had in the history of the country right now.
 
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davefoc said:
You and I are not discussing the same thing. I was discussing how I thought this might go and I said that I don't think there is enough information available to be able to figure that out.

If the issue is what I suspect then Trump is toast. There is enough evidence available to make a few reasonable estimates of some of the illegal stuff Trump has done.

However my view is that Trump is safe as long as Fox News continues to shill for him. So for me the issue is what kind of explicit unequivocal evidence exists that would make it such it is no longer in Fox News's interest to shill for Trump and does that kind of evidence exist.

Fox News is a phenomena. It functions like it was a government owned propaganda platform while being a private company. It is making a fortune with its connection to Trump and by pandering to the base that he has energized. It will not abandon this cash cow until absolutely forced to. Fox News largely controls the national Republican Party today and any removal of Trump will require some cooperation from a part of the Republican Party so Fox News will play a key role in the decision of whether to remove Trump from power or not. Fox News may have more political power than any media company has ever had in the history of the country right now.
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We're discussing the same thing. I just don't agree that Trump's base has the majority political power. November should resolve our disagreement.
 
davefoc said:
Fox News is a phenomena. It functions like it was a government owned propaganda platform while being a private company. It is making a fortune with its connection to Trump and by pandering to the base that he has energized. It will not abandon this cash cow until absolutely forced to. Fox News largely controls the national Republican Party today and any removal of Trump will require some cooperation from a part of the Republican Party so Fox News will play a key role in the decision of whether to remove Trump from power or not. Fox News may have more political power than any media company has ever had in the history of the country right now.
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Rupert Murdoch may start to think about his legacy, or even think he wants to reposition Fox News and any adjustment to the ratings before he hands over to one of his 2 sons. The sons wives are probably the most liberal of the immediate family but for me it depends how much the Murdoch family value their ratings/advertising dollars against the effect Fox News may have on the groups overall image.
 
Zambo said:
Rupert Murdoch may start to think about his legacy, or even think he wants to reposition Fox News and any adjustment to the ratings before he hands over to one of his 2 sons. The sons wives are probably the most liberal of the immediate family but for me it depends how much the Murdoch family value their ratings/advertising dollars against the effect Fox News may have on the groups overall image.
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Thanks for the information. I think the power that Fox News has over the Republican Party will fade and it might be at its peak right now. Changing demographics will reel Fox News in if nothing else. Owners that have some sort of ethical view about what is going on might hasten the process.


The midterm elections will have a great effect on all this. Republicans are afraid of losing primary challenges if they don't kow tow to Trump. But that could be moot for Republicans if they don't win the general elections. And if Fox News can't get Republicans elected Republicans will be less likely to follow Fox News's lead. And a Democratic majority will lead to real investigations of Trump which might lead to revelations that are so significant that Fox News will be forced to reel in its Trump shilling which will lead to Republicans cooperating with Trump's removal from office and Skeptigirl will be proved right, Trump will be forced out.



Or not. Nixon wouldn't have been forced out of office without the tapes and so far there is no information that has been released to the public that is as damning as the tapes.I just don't think it is knowable right now that evidence against Trump exists that will be enough to force the hand of the Republicans to abandon him.
 
davefoc said:
Thanks for the information. I think the power that Fox News has over the Republican Party will fade and it might be at its peak right now. Changing demographics will reel Fox News in if nothing else. Owners that have some sort of ethical view about what is going on might hasten the process.


The midterm elections will have a great effect on all this. Republicans are afraid of losing primary challenges if they don't kow tow to Trump. But that could be moot for Republicans if they don't win the general elections. And if Fox News can't get Republicans elected Republicans will be less likely to follow Fox News's lead. And a Democratic majority will lead to real investigations of Trump which might lead to revelations that are so significant that Fox News will be forced to reel in its Trump shilling which will lead to Republicans cooperating with Trump's removal from office and Skeptigirl will be proved right, Trump will be forced out.

Or not. Nixon wouldn't have been forced out of office without the tapes and so far there is no information that has been released to the public that is as damning as the tapes.I just don't think it is knowable right now that evidence against Trump exists that will be enough to force the hand of the Republicans to abandon him.
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I disagree with this. In fact, far more damning information has come out about Trump than ever came out in the Watergate tapes. You'd have to be simply tribal or an idiot not to recognize Trump's blatant attempt to obstruct justice. The difference is that there was a physical break-in of the Democratic HQ and burglary at the root of it and it was planned by associates of Nixon and the subsequent cover up. I think people can relate to a burglary as a crime easier than collusion.

The evidence of clear collusion between Trump's inner circle and the Russians is beyond obvious. Finally, its also clear with the actions of Trump in regards to Russia demonstrate that he has been bought.

Putin owns that whore.
 
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acbytesla said:
I disagree with this. In fact, far more damning information has come out about Trump than ever came out in the Watergate tapes. You'd have to be simply tribal or an idiot not to recognize Trump's blatant attempt to obstruct justice. The difference is that there was a physical break-in of the Democratic HQ and burglary at the root of it and it was planned by associates of Nixon and the subsequent cover up. I think people can relate to a burglary as a crime easier than collusion.
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Lol
It’s obvious you don’t know what obstruction of justice is or the power of the presidency who is in charge of the Executive branch.
The evidence of clear collusion between Trump's inner circle and the Russians is beyond obvious. Finally, its also clear with the actions of Trump in regards to Russia demonstrate that he has been bought.

Putin owns that whore.
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Lol

There is literally no evidence of Trump campaign collusion to get hildabeasts emails published. None!

There is evidence of them talking to Russians, which is perfectly normal. The idea that you would want him removed for that is extreme to the nth degree.
 
logger said:
There is evidence of them talking to Russians, which is perfectly normal.
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More precisely: evidence of them talking to Russians who were offering them dirt on Clinton which they expressed an interest in, and discussions with Russians about sanctions, followed by Trump himself publicly asking Russia to release the emails, followed by the emails being released by Russia, followed by Trump failing to impose sanctions on Russia.

And that's only one of the many trails.

I'm sure it's all a massive coincidence, though.
 
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logger said:
Lol
It’s obvious you don’t know what obstruction of justice is or the power of the presidency who is in charge of the Executive branch.

Lol

There is literally no evidence of Trump campaign collusion to get hildabeasts emails published. None!

There is evidence of them talking to Russians, which is perfectly normal. The idea that you would want him removed for that is extreme to the nth degree.
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Bullcrap. The President does NOT have the right to tell a law enforcement officer to ignore crimes. To do so is obstruction of justice. There is massive evidence of collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign starting withe the Trump Tower meeting and Donald Jr.s own words about getting dirt on Hillary. 'I love it'. Between, Jr. Manafort, Flynn and Don Sr.s words immediately following that meeting, you see, the obvious collusion with a foreign government.

Keep dismissing the obvious. Also why is the government so slow in implementing the sanctions on Russia that Trump opposed?

Bend over America. Trump and Putin are taking turns.
 
acbytesla said:
Bullcrap. The President does NOT have the right to tell a law enforcement officer to ignore crimes. To do so is obstruction of justice. There is massive evidence of collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign starting withe the Trump Tower meeting and Donald Jr.s own words about getting dirt on Hillary. 'I love it'. Between, Jr. Manafort, Flynn and Don Sr.s words immediately following that meeting, you see, the obvious collusion with a foreign government.

Keep dismissing the obvious. Also why is the government so slow in implementing the sanctions on Russia that Trump opposed?

Bend over America. Trump and Putin are taking turns.
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:dl:
 
logger said:
There is evidence of them talking to Russians, which is perfectly normal. The idea that you would want him removed for that is extreme to the nth degree.
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Talking? Weather and stuff? What they were talking about is the point. But it seems that Trump will serve his term and then for a second term we will see.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
More precisely: evidence of them talking to Russians who were offering them dirt on Clinton which they expressed an interest in, and discussions with Russians about sanctions, followed by Trump himself publicly asking Russia to release the emails, followed by the emails being released by Russia, followed by Trump failing to impose sanctions on Russia.

And that's only one of the many trails.

I'm sure it's all a massive coincidence, though.
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And the NYT just reported there was another Trump Tower meeting. Saudi Arabia and the UAE were making pitches to Jr as well.
 
acbytesla said:
Bullcrap. The President does NOT have the right to tell a law enforcement officer to ignore crimes. To do so is obstruction of justice. There is massive evidence of collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign starting withe the Trump Tower meeting and Donald Jr.s own words about getting dirt on Hillary. 'I love it'. Between, Jr. Manafort, Flynn and Don Sr.s words immediately following that meeting, you see, the obvious collusion with a foreign government.

Keep dismissing the obvious. Also why is the government so slow in implementing the sanctions on Russia that Trump opposed?

Bend over America. Trump and Putin are taking turns.
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Don jr was breaking the law by hearing dirt? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

Massive collusion between Russians? It doesn’t look like you even know what that means.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
More precisely: evidence of them talking to Russians who were offering them dirt on Clinton which they expressed an interest in, and discussions with Russians about sanctions, followed by Trump himself publicly asking Russia to release the emails, followed by the emails being released by Russia, followed by Trump failing to impose sanctions on Russia.

And that's only one of the many trails.

I'm sure it's all a massive coincidence, though.
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None of this is reality. Don jr is certainly allowed to hear dirt on Clinton, even though none was offered.

If John Kerry (who served in Vietnam) can break the Logan act, I’m sure no one is going to charge any Trump people.

Trump asking the Russians to “find” the emails, then release them was simply a joke, but I love the fact that you don’t see it that way. It was a great line!

No trails, your side has nothing.
 
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