Ed Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday

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The Senate Intel Committee says they have docs showing that Russia used the NRA to help Trump!

“The Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association as a means of accessing and assisting Mr. Trump and his campaign"
 
I took a look at all the indictments that have come out of the Mueller investigation, and it really illustrates very well why I am so disappointed with the media coverage and most discussion of it.

The majority of indictments have been against Russian operatives who used identity theft to spread falsehoods on social media and use those falsehoods to sow discord among Americans. That ought to be big news. The Russians have an ongoing, active, propaganda campaign to undermine American democracy, and it's working, and they are breaking laws in order to make it happen. That's important stuff.

But it doesn't use the word "Trump", so it's largely ignored.

The right wing wants to shut the investigation down because they're afraid it might dig some dirt on Trump. The left wing wants to keep it going, but they overlook the little matter of Russian dirty tricks unless somehow it is connected to Trump. This investigation is doing important work. It's also looking into the Trump campaign.


If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"

I think this is a rational view right now. Trump's has potential legal liability on a wide range of issues but so far all that is supported with publicly available evidence is that some Trump campaign staff broke various laws. In Manafort's case he is charged violations that with don't necessarily tie back to the president.

I suspect that Trump won't come out of the Cohen situation unscathed. I doubt that he was paying Cohen from his personal post tax funds. He probably used corporation money to pay him. But this is a ticky tack issue. Trump will say he didn't know what Cohen was doing and he just assumed it was business related. He'll pay a fine and that will be over for him. Even Cohen might skate mostly free, possibly pleading guilty to some income tax violations, or campaign violations. But we don't know the full scope of Cohen's problems yet.

ETA: This is not to say there isn't smoke all over the place with regard to this stuff, but right now there aren't any visible flames large enough to bring Trump down that I'm aware of.
 
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This is fun. According to an article in the Daily Kos Manafort prevented the cases from being consolidated into one trial in Washington, DC.

Good news for the lawyers. They're still winning. One trial for the price of two. Woo Hoo.

Daily Kos article: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...him-in-twice-as-much-trouble?detail=emaildkre

Link to the court order denying Manafort's motion: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000163-6599-d92c-a17f-eddde22f0001

That judge is not afraid to write. A wall of text telling Manafort that his legal theories were crap and that his motion was denied.
 
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If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"

Are we watching the same news come out? That is a legitimate question. I totally understand the overplayed "I'll wait and see, but won't speculate." It's an intellectually safe position to play. In all honesty though, there is Russian money flooding to Trump and his campaign from all over the place. It's been proven Cohen got money linked to Russia, there's a link that the NRA got money to help Trump from Russia, meetings between Kushner, et. al., and the list goes on and on.

I'll let you enjoy the perch, and by no means do I expect people to just agree with me, but good God. This is the problem. We've now grown so much more tolerant of this ignorant jackass's actions that all of this compiling evidence is becoming a shoulder shrug for Americans. It's really, really tough to watch. If this were any other sane administration the sky would be falling, now there are a portion of American's that seem to dismiss it.

Awesome.
 
I took a look at all the indictments that have come out of the Mueller investigation, and it really illustrates very well why I am so disappointed with the media coverage and most discussion of it.

The majority of indictments have been against Russian operatives who used identity theft to spread falsehoods on social media and use those falsehoods to sow discord among Americans. That ought to be big news. The Russians have an ongoing, active, propaganda campaign to undermine American democracy, and it's working, and they are breaking laws in order to make it happen. That's important stuff.

But it doesn't use the word "Trump", so it's largely ignored.

The right wing wants to shut the investigation down because they're afraid it might dig some dirt on Trump. The left wing wants to keep it going, but they overlook the little matter of Russian dirty tricks unless somehow it is connected to Trump. This investigation is doing important work. It's also looking into the Trump campaign.


If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"

Donald Junior's 7-minute call to a blocked number after the Trump Tower meeting is suggestive.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/donald-jr-russia-w520368

The biggest question hanging over the June 9th meeting is whether Donald Trump had any knowledge of it. (Those involved have denied he did.) As the testimony lays out, after being contacted by Goldstone, Trump Jr. received a call from Emin Agalarov to discuss the meeting. Following the call, Trump Jr. placed a call to a blocked number, and, after that call concluded, dialed Agalarov back. Speculation has swirled that Trump was on the other end of the unknown call, and Trump Jr.'s amnesia-ridden testimony doesn't exactly quash suspicion that Trump knew of the meeting.

When asked who he called between the two calls with Agalrov, Trump Jr. replied, "I have no idea."

Corey Lewandowski testified separately that Trump's primary residence uses a blocked number, but Trump Jr. – whom one would assume would also possess this information – didn't seem so sure. When asked if his father uses a blocked number "on his cellphone or on any phones that you call him on," Trump Jr. replied, "I don't know." When asked to clarify that he doesn't know if the call to the blocked number was to his father, Trump Jr. replied, "I don't."

We also have Trump later publicly asking Russian hackers for emails

ETA: the rest of the article suggests that Junior and Kushner might have been a bit self-serving in their recollections of the meeting - worth a read
 
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The Senate Intel Committee says they have docs showing that Russia used the NRA to help Trump!

“The Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association as a means of accessing and assisting Mr. Trump and his campaign"
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just :jaw-dropp to me.
 
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just :jaw-dropp to me.

Your loyalty to Dear Leader is impressive.
 
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just :jaw-dropp to me.

There isn't exactly a lack of evidence - up to December, where I started to get overwhelmed by the amount of evidence, I periodically tried creating a timeline


Mar 19| Podesta email hacked
Apr 19| DCLeaks.com registered
May 3| Trump becomes presumptive nominee
June 3| Goldstone contacts Trump Jr. to setup meeting which promises to discuss Clinton June 7 17:16 | Don Jr. confirms meeting w/ Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya June7 21:13 | Trump promises press conf the next week with Clinton dirt
June 8| Trump posts link to DCLeaks
June 9| Trump Jr, Kushner, Manafort meet with Russian operative
June 9 | Trump Jr calls blocked number immediately after meeting claims he can't recall whether his father's number is blocked (others have confirmed it is)
June 12| Assange announces Clinton emails
June 27| Hacked emails posted to DCLeaks
July 11| Trump/Manafort nix pro-Ukranian plank in GOP platform (and lie about it)
Late July | Malware researchers spot unusual server activity between Trump server and Alfa Bank
Aug 21| Roger Stone writes "it will soon be Podesta's time in the barrel"
Oct -7 | Pussygate video released
Oct 7| Wikileaks releases Podesta emails (an hour later)
Dec- 29 | Flynn Consults With Transition Team, Then Calls Kislyak
Dec 30 | Putin Declines to Retaliate
2017 |
Jan 15 | Pence Says He Is Unaware of Flynn’s Discussions
Jan 26| Sally Yates meets White House Counsel and warns that Flynn is lying and the Russians can prove it - making him a blackmail risk
Feb 9| Flynn’s Conversation Is Revealed by WaPo
Feb 13 | Flynn fired
Feb 14 | White House Says Flynn Violated President’s Trust
Feb 14| Trump asks FBI Director Comey to drop investigation into Flynn
May 9| Comey is fired
May| DOJ drops money laundering case against client of Natalia Veselnitskaya
May 11| Trump tells NBC he considered "this Russia thing" before firing Comey
May 12| Democrats ask questions about the DoJ dropping the money lanudering case
 
Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just :jaw-dropp to me.

What is wrong with that?

An article suggests a certain connection. An ongoing Senate investigation looks into it and finds supporting evidence. What is stupid-cartoon-meaning-shocking-because-words-are complicated about that?
 
Manafort needs to thank him, it would still go forward somewhere else, at least this Judge is keeping his eye on the corrupt Mueller.

we have :
crooked Hillary
corrupt Mueller

we need some more monikers for the conservatives:
Clean as a whistle Manafort
Honest Donald
Forthright Cohen
Virtuous Flynn
Impervious Hanity
Straight shooter Sanders
 
"Robert Mueller told Trump's legal team two weeks ago he will follow Justice Department guidance saying a sitting president cannot be indicted."

Cripes, this is going to drag out until 2024?
 
You posted this without a source and I was very intrigued so I found one. What you have stated is a gross misrepresentation of reality.

Some quotes from my source: "Committee has obtained a number of documents that suggest the Kremlin used the National Rifle Association," "The Kremlin may also have used the NRA to secretly fund Mr. Trump’s campaign."

Source

This whole investigation is so bizarre to me. Certain groups are convinced of wrongdoing with little to no evidence. Each inquiry conveniently leads to more questions. Calling them questions doesn't seem appropriate, more like wild assertions. Down the rabbit hole they go.

Even more odd to me is that the Senate Committees report cites a previous Rolling Stones article!? In early April a Rolling Stones article suggests the possibility of an NRA - Russia - Trump connection. A month later the Senate Committee investigates and provides documentation supporting the Rolling Stones article could be factual. Wage the Dog? That is just :jaw-dropp to me.


https://apnews.com/4d174e45ef5843a0ba82e804f080988f
 
There isn't exactly a lack of evidence - up to December, where I started to get overwhelmed by the amount of evidence, I periodically tried creating a timeline


Mar 19| Podesta email hacked
Apr 19| DCLeaks.com registered
May 3| Trump becomes presumptive nominee
June 3| Goldstone contacts Trump Jr. to setup meeting which promises to discuss Clinton June 7 17:16 | Don Jr. confirms meeting w/ Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya June7 21:13 | Trump promises press conf the next week with Clinton dirt
June 8| Trump posts link to DCLeaks
June 9| Trump Jr, Kushner, Manafort meet with Russian operative
June 9 | Trump Jr calls blocked number immediately after meeting claims he can't recall whether his father's number is blocked (others have confirmed it is)
June 12| Assange announces Clinton emails
June 27| Hacked emails posted to DCLeaks
July 11| Trump/Manafort nix pro-Ukranian plank in GOP platform (and lie about it)
Late July | Malware researchers spot unusual server activity between Trump server and Alfa Bank
Aug 21| Roger Stone writes "it will soon be Podesta's time in the barrel"
Oct -7 | Pussygate video released
Oct 7| Wikileaks releases Podesta emails (an hour later)
Dec- 29 | Flynn Consults With Transition Team, Then Calls Kislyak
Dec 30 | Putin Declines to Retaliate
2017 |
Jan 15 | Pence Says He Is Unaware of Flynn’s Discussions
Jan 26| Sally Yates meets White House Counsel and warns that Flynn is lying and the Russians can prove it - making him a blackmail risk
Feb 9| Flynn’s Conversation Is Revealed by WaPo
Feb 13 | Flynn fired
Feb 14 | White House Says Flynn Violated President’s Trust
Feb 14| Trump asks FBI Director Comey to drop investigation into Flynn
May 9| Comey is fired
May| DOJ drops money laundering case against client of Natalia Veselnitskaya
May 11| Trump tells NBC he considered "this Russia thing" before firing Comey
May 12| Democrats ask questions about the DoJ dropping the money lanudering case

To be a Trump supporter,you really have to spend most of your time with your fingers in your ears, yelling "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!".
 
I took a look at all the indictments that have come out of the Mueller investigation, and it really illustrates very well why I am so disappointed with the media coverage and most discussion of it.

The majority of indictments have been against Russian operatives who used identity theft to spread falsehoods on social media and use those falsehoods to sow discord among Americans. That ought to be big news. The Russians have an ongoing, active, propaganda campaign to undermine American democracy, and it's working, and they are breaking laws in order to make it happen. That's important stuff.

But it doesn't use the word "Trump", so it's largely ignored.

The right wing wants to shut the investigation down because they're afraid it might dig some dirt on Trump. The left wing wants to keep it going, but they overlook the little matter of Russian dirty tricks unless somehow it is connected to Trump. This investigation is doing important work. It's also looking into the Trump campaign.


If Trump staffers played an active role supporting the crimes of the Russians who have been indicted, I would be all for throwing the book at them, including at the Big Cheese himself, but I don't think that happened. I think that, to the extent they had anything to do with it, they were just played by the Russians. That's worth knowing, but it won't, and shouldn't, result in impeachment, assuming that's all there is.
I agree wholeheartedly...
Although I also contend that this isn't really new behavior, it's just newly being brought to light. This kind of misinformation and propaganda has been used by various countries pretty consistently over time... including the US, and we're likely one of the largest offenders in the realm of psy-ops. But it definitely should be something that we're aware of and that the US takes pains to interrupt.

Well, I await the report, but I fear that when the investigation wraps up it will say, "There was a concerted effort by the Russians to subvert American democracy, but Donald Trump wasn't part of that effort." and the country will say, "So, no big deal, right?"
Nah - I think it'll be worse than that. A little under half will say "No big deal then"... and a little under the other half will decide that Mueller is a Trump shill and that the FBI is a republican front. There'll only be a slim segment of us in the middle who say "This is really important and we should do something about it!".
 
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