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Wearing a MAGA Hat While Black

Brainster said:
I think we can all agree that any of those terms are offensive automatically if they are said in anger, and not in a spirit of camaraderie, even if they are spoken by a fellow group member.
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I don't necessarily - like I said, I consider the threats and intimidation to be worse. And I'd never eat anywhere where the staff acted that way, since they may try to "contaminate" the food in some disgusting (and illegal!) way. It's best to leave before that happens, and be relieved that they expressed themselves so openly rather than to potentially poison you. And that's just looking at self preservation - it's not right that they went either route, but this is as good as you can expect from anyone that willing to be openly hostile.

As for terms like "race traitor", "Uncle Tom", etc ...I don't use them, but many other communities have terms for people who are seen as openly and intentionally working against the common interests of other people who live there, regardless of how or why that community was created, so I'm unbothered when other black Americans use them in cases like this. I consider these along the same lines as "Benedict Arnold" for people who US citizens who betray the US, or "Gamergater" for gamers that harass women online. And a black guy who considers himself part of a US black community, but votes for Dolt 45 (as opposed to most other republicans) is about as close as you get to that. I don't really recognize a singular "the black community" however, so I'm very reluctant to consider anyone to have betrayed all black people. And "House slave/negro/etc" will get a word from me on how badly actual slaves were treated who worked in the house.
 
Mumbles said:
I don't necessarily - like I said, I consider the threats and intimidation to be worse. And I'd never eat anywhere where the staff acted that way, since they may try to "contaminate" the food in some disgusting (and illegal!) way. It's best to leave before that happens, and be relieved that they expressed themselves so openly rather than to potentially poison you. And that's just looking at self preservation - it's not right that they went either route, but this is as good as you can expect from anyone that willing to be openly hostile.

As for terms like "race traitor", "Uncle Tom", etc ...I don't use them, but many other communities have terms for people who are seen as openly and intentionally working against the common interests of other people who live there, regardless of how or why that community was created, so I'm unbothered when other black Americans use them in cases like this. I consider these along the same lines as "Benedict Arnold" for people who US citizens who betray the US, or "Gamergater" for gamers that harass women online. And a black guy who considers himself part of a US black community, but votes for Dolt 45 (as opposed to most other republicans) is about as close as you get to that. I don't really recognize a singular "the black community" however, so I'm very reluctant to consider anyone to have betrayed all black people. And "House slave/negro/etc" will get a word from me on how badly actual slaves were treated who worked in the house.
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Oh come on Quisling is always the most respected profession by all groups.
 
I think the word people are looking for is 'intersectionality'. Every individual belongs to more than one group, and sometimes this results in conflict.

One thing that always depresses me is gay racists. It just seems like of all people they should know better, but that's humanity for you. We won't get along until we meet aliens, then we'll band together to be nasty to them.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I think the word people are looking for is 'intersectionality'. Every individual belongs to more than one group, and sometimes this results in conflict.
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This is what I've hit on the past with the Democrats failing to understand that "Democratic Policies are Better for Group X" doesn't always automatically win them everybody in Group X.

There gay, black, disabled, veteran, transgender, etc people for whom being gay, black, disabled, a veteran, transgendered, etc is not the most important part of their life and it seems at times Progressives and Liberals and the Democrats just keep screaming "But we're making life better for (this or that demographic)!" and don't get it.

And.... okay bad, bad elephant in the room here but... so be it, there's also the tendency to treat "minority" as a single distinct demographic when... it's not. It would be a wonderful world if one disadvantaged group's understanding of how they are disadvantaged would always transfer over to empathy for other groups but... yeah. Female racists, black homophobes.. these aren't hard to find.
 
JoeMorgue said:
And.... okay bad, bad elephant in the room here but... so be it, there's also the tendency to treat "minority" as a single distinct demographic when... it's not. It would be a wonderful world if one disadvantaged group's understanding of how they are disadvantaged would always transfer over to empathy for other groups but... yeah. Female racists, black homophobes.. these aren't hard to find.
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There seems to be only one group you consider to have the natural tendency to be racist, homophobe, etc. based on being advantaged.
 
Anyone remember when **** like this was the sole domain of ******** with hoods?

There are two types of liberals.

Those like myself that see 1950s America as a disgusting example of one group having power over another.

And those that think the only problem was that it wasn't liberals wielding that power.

Sadly the second option seems more and more common.
 
JoeMorgue said:
And.... okay bad, bad elephant in the room here but... so be it, there's also the tendency to treat "minority" as a single distinct demographic when... it's not. It would be a wonderful world if one disadvantaged group's understanding of how they are disadvantaged would always transfer over to empathy for other groups but... yeah. Female racists, black homophobes.. these aren't hard to find.
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Indeed. As a matter of fact, the black community, as a whole tends to be relatively church-going and culturally conservative. So, for example, there is less support for gay marriage in the black community than in the white community. That should cause cognitive dissonance in some quarters. [/OFFTOPIC]

Back to the main topic, even though I shouldn't be surprised at how much less attention this story is getting than the other "such-and-such while black" stories, it is still pretty astonishing.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
Indeed. As a matter of fact, the black community, as a whole tends to be relatively church-going and culturally conservative. So, for example, there is less support for gay marriage in the black community than in the white community. That should cause cognitive dissonance in some quarters. [/OFFTOPIC]

Back to the main topic, even though I shouldn't be surprised at how much less attention this story is getting than the other "such-and-such while black" stories, it is still pretty astonishing.
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And people being shocked by black men supporting the confederacy based explicitly on the inferiority of their race is also not something that would strike you as odd I can tell.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
Back to the main topic, even though I shouldn't be surprised at how much less attention this story is getting than the other "such-and-such while black" stories, it is still pretty astonishing.
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It is astonishing because this is the one story with an absolutely clear case of in-your-face bigotry, except it isn't against black people it's against conservatives. So I guess it isn't that astonishing actually.

I mean there was no denial from the perpetrators, they were very clear as to why they were upset. There is no translation needed. Finally, a story containing obvious bigotry!
 
Mumbles said:
As for terms like "race traitor", "Uncle Tom", etc ...I don't use them, but many other communities have terms for people who are seen as openly and intentionally working against the common interests of other people who live there, regardless of how or why that community was created, so I'm unbothered when other black Americans use them in cases like this.
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Whenever I hear anybody talking about race traitors, I know they are racists. It's just that most people only seem to see it when it's the KKK talking about white race traitors.
 
Brainster said:
Whenever I hear anybody talking about race traitors, I know they are racists. It's just that most people only seem to see it when it's the KKK talking about white race traitors.
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Some hate the KKK because of their tactics, others just want to have their people under the hood.
 
Brainster said:
Whenever I hear anybody talking about race traitors, I know they are racists. It's just that most people only seem to see it when it's the KKK talking about white race traitors.
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Is the very concept of traitor meaningful ever? People are acting in accordance with their ideology, be that not caring about their individual rights compared to tax cuts with say log cabin republicans, or choosing to send information to other nations for ideological reasons.
 
Brainster said:
Whenever I hear anybody talking about race traitors, I know they are racists. It's just that most people only seem to see it when it's the KKK talking about white race traitors.
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The key difference, of course, is that the KKK are a white supremacist terrorist group. When David Duke calls someone a "race traitor", all he means is that at some point they failed to oppress a person who isn't white in some fashion. When this guy is called a "race traitor" by other black people, they mean that he supports David Duke's mission to oppress nonwhite people, despite himself being nonwhite.

Among other issues - Duke will call someone a "race traitor" because one does not wish for police to beat or kill black people without cause. This guy is being called a "race traitor" because he effectively supports police who beat or kill black people without cause.

Context is important!
 
Mumbles said:
The key difference, of course, is that the KKK are a white supremacist terrorist group. When David Duke calls someone a "race traitor", all he means is that at some point they failed to oppress a person who isn't white in some fashion. When this guy is called a "race traitor" by other black people, they mean that he supports David Duke's mission to oppress nonwhite people, despite himself being nonwhite.

Among other issues - Duke will call someone a "race traitor" because one does not wish for police to beat or kill black people without cause. This guy is being called a "race traitor" because he effectively supports police who beat or kill black people without cause.

Context is important!
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Are you calling the guy a race traitor?
 
What's sad is that there are some many good, valid reasons to hate Trump supporters that they shouldn't need to stoop to race. A traitor to his country is a traitor regardless of race. Focus on the treason, not the skin color I say.
 
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Craig4 said:
What's sad is that there are some many good, valid reasons to hate Trump supporters that shouldn't need to stoop to race. A traitor to his country is a traitor regardless of race. Focus on the treason, not the skin color I say.
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White supremacism has been central to Dolt 45's politics since he began pushing birtherism in 2011. Saying it should be ignored is as absurd as saying that we shouldn't discuss his sexual abuse or his pathetic business career.
 
Mumbles said:
White supremacism has been central to Dolt 45's politics since he began pushing birtherism in 2011. Saying it should be ignored is as absurd as saying that we shouldn't discuss his sexual abuse or his pathetic business career.
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But you don't need to hurl racial epithets at his supporters when so many race neutral epithets apply.
 
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