Ed Breaking: Mueller Grand Jury charges filed, arrests as soon as Monday

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acbytesla said:
Ben Ghazzi investigation: 4 years, 0 indictments, 0 convictions
Hillary E-mail investigation: 2 years, 0 indictments, 0 convictions
Mueller, Russia investigation: 13 months 20 indictments, 2 convictions (so far)

And the Republicans want to shut it down.

Hmmmm.
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Apparently this little collection of indisputable facts can be hammered home again and again, but it utterly fails to register with Trump's apologistas. This one brief, easily digestible string of hardly more than 2 dozen words would not strain the cognitive ability of your typical 5th grader, yet legions of adults seemingly cannot process them.

The facts are that Mueller runs a tight ship and is getting results. The fact of his not hurrying along to satisfy our impatience belies his thoroughness. And really, considering the scope, he's going at an objectively decent clip.

To those who pooh-pooh the convictions so far as 'process' crimes. Why would those guys cave so quickly if innocent? They had serious charges looming that they knew they were got dead to rights on, and took the lesser charge in turn for cooperation.

And don't forget how far ahead of us all Mueller is. Avenetti's April/May revelations about Essential Consultants is late news; Mueller already interviewed the companies involved back in November. He's got stuff of which we haven't gleaned a whiff of suspicion yet. Getting his ducks in a row so as to make an unassailable case is his modus operandi. Not that the Trumpistas won't robotically protest then, either, no matter how damning the evidence.

The Congress scum running interference for Trump are now demanding evidence in an ongoing investigation that would compromise it. Clearly so as to pass intel along to the very subject at the heart of it. But they know that won't happen with law-abiding investigators. And so the goal is really to try the impeach the investigators (DAG Rosenstein, principally) for not complying with their illegal demands. This is such transparent partisanship by and in the service of those who would happily pervert justice for their shortsightedness. They really are banking on a stupid electorate.

And *that's* the crucial factor, really. So far a sufficient amount of stupid in the populace won the day for Trump 18 months ago. Will that same stupid prevail again?
 
Lurch said:
Apparently this little collection of indisputable facts can be hammered home again and again, but it utterly fails to register with Trump's apologistas. This one brief, easily digestible string of hardly more than 2 dozen words would not strain the cognitive ability of your typical 5th grader, yet legions of adults seemingly cannot process them.
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Until the five year old learns the DOJ has still not turned over documents relating to this investigation.
The facts are that Mueller runs a tight ship and is getting results. The fact of his not hurrying along to satisfy our impatience belies his thoroughness. And really, considering the scope, he's going at an objectively decent clip.
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His ship wouldn’t even float it leaks so much.
To those who pooh-pooh the convictions so far as 'process' crimes. Why would those guys cave so quickly if innocent? They had serious charges looming that they knew they were got dead to rights on, and took the lesser charge in turn for cooperation.
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Because of money, you’ve obviously never been in a courtroom.

The Congress scum running interference for Trump are now demanding evidence in an ongoing investigation that would compromise it. Clearly so as to pass intel along to the very subject at the heart of it. But they know that won't happen with law-abiding investigators. And so the goal is really to try the impeach the investigators (DAG Rosenstein, principally) for not complying with their illegal demands. This is such transparent partisanship by and in the service of those who would happily pervert justice for their shortsightedness. They really are banking on a stupid electorate.
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Lol
An ongoing investigation? They have oversight, that cannot be denied or ignored.
And *that's* the crucial factor, really. So far a sufficient amount of stupid in the populace won the day for Trump 18 months ago. Will that same stupid prevail again?
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Ahh the typical answer, people were so stupid they couldn’t see how honest and wonderful loser Clinton was. :rolleyes:
 
Lurch said:
Apparently this little collection of indisputable facts can be hammered home again and again, but it utterly fails to register with Trump's apologistas. This one brief, easily digestible string of hardly more than 2 dozen words would not strain the cognitive ability of your typical 5th grader, yet legions of adults seemingly cannot process them.

The facts are that Mueller runs a tight ship and is getting results. The fact of his not hurrying along to satisfy our impatience belies his thoroughness. And really, considering the scope, he's going at an objectively decent clip.

To those who pooh-pooh the convictions so far as 'process' crimes. Why would those guys cave so quickly if innocent? They had serious charges looming that they knew they were got dead to rights on, and took the lesser charge in turn for cooperation.

And don't forget how far ahead of us all Mueller is. Avenetti's April/May revelations about Essential Consultants is late news; Mueller already interviewed the companies involved back in November. He's got stuff of which we haven't gleaned a whiff of suspicion yet. Getting his ducks in a row so as to make an unassailable case is his modus operandi. Not that the Trumpistas won't robotically protest then, either, no matter how damning the evidence.

The Congress scum running interference for Trump are now demanding evidence in an ongoing investigation that would compromise it. Clearly so as to pass intel along to the very subject at the heart of it. But they know that won't happen with law-abiding investigators. And so the goal is really to try the impeach the investigators (DAG Rosenstein, principally) for not complying with their illegal demands. This is such transparent partisanship by and in the service of those who would happily pervert justice for their shortsightedness. They really are banking on a stupid electorate.

And *that's* the crucial factor, really. So far a sufficient amount of stupid in the populace won the day for Trump 18 months ago. Will that same stupid prevail again?
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Hard to say. There is no reason to believe that Mueller or Rosenstein are ANYTHING but straight shooters. Both career no nonsense guys who have worked in both Republican and Democratic administrations. Its more than reasonable to believe they have a good picture of the criminality.

Still, they don't know yet is what was discovered in the Cohen raid. The special master has examined and has issued a report to Cohen, Trump's lawyers and the Southern District of New York on the first batch of documents and what he believes is covered by attorney client privilege. Now the lawyers will make decisions to challenge the admissibility of whether that info may be passed on. We have no idea how much dirt they have uncovered.
 
acbytesla,
My "stupid in the populace" summation in my previous post was a bit of a crude shift in the subject, which I can understand might cause confusion.

I was pointing to the electorate, who gave Trump his win, and whom TrumpCo is probably counting on to remain stupid.

Hence the seeming willingness by that cabal of traitorous Congress scum to risk egregious transgressions in defense of Trump. They've decided to go all in and hitch their fates to Trump's star.

Just because House Representatives are called "lawmakers" does not put them above the law. When TrumpCo sinks, I hope the rats like Nunes go down too.
 
Lurch said:
acbytesla,
My "stupid in the populace" summation in my previous post was a bit of a crude shift in the subject, which I can understand might cause confusion.

I was pointing to the electorate, who gave Trump his win, and whom TrumpCo is probably counting on to remain stupid.

Hence the seeming willingness by that cabal of traitorous Congress scum to risk egregious transgressions in defense of Trump. They've decided to go all in and hitch their fates to Trump's star.

Just because House Representatives are called "lawmakers" does not put them above the law. When TrumpCo sinks, I hope the rats like Nunes go down too.
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When Trump was elected I firmly believed it was the stupidity of a large part of the American electorate that caused it. While I still think a lot of Trumpists are terminally stupid, I no longer believe it to be the cause of Trump's win. Fact is, a lot of Americans are racist authoritarians. They long for a strong white man to lead America to greatness. They believe they have found what they are looking for in Trump, who does not care about social norms or even actual laws. This is why they don't care about the daily scandals coming from the white house. The only thing that matters is that they remain in power, and they will allow any method for ensuring that.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Yeah, the full quote basically says that either they were collaborating or they were too stupid to understand that they were being played. You're free to count that as a victory, if you like.
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How were they being played? By getting emails from a woman and her campaign director because they were so stupid letting themselves get hacked?
 
logger said:
Until the five year old learns the DOJ has still not turned over documents relating to this investigation.
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The ongoing investigation, you mean? The phase for which investigators never turn over information because it causes even greater risk for obstruction?

Most adults can put together why this turning over documents during an ongoing investigation is fundamentally stupid idea if you want the investigation to be successful.
 
Upchurch said:
The ongoing investigation, you mean? The phase for which investigators never turn over information because it causes even greater risk for obstruction?

Most adults can put together why this turning over documents during an ongoing investigation is fundamentally stupid idea if you want the investigation to be successful.
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Most adults can also see how much work it takes to get documents, then get them unredacted only to find out it was hard to get them to cover up an embarrassment for both agencies. These agencies can easily cover these things up and you couldn’t care less. :rolleyes:
 
logger said:
Most adults can also see how much work it takes to get documents, then get them unredacted only to find out it was hard to get them to cover up an embarrassment for both agencies. These agencies can easily cover these things up and you couldn’t care less. :rolleyes:
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Ask for a police report for an ongoing investigation. See how much of it you get. The committee has no (zero) ability to compel the FBI to turn over the unredacted ongoing investigation notes for ANY investigation.

Why do you think they should here?
 
Border Reiver said:
Ask for a police report for an ongoing investigation. See how much of it you get. The committee has no (zero) ability to compel the FBI to turn over the unredacted ongoing investigation notes for ANY investigation.

Why do you think they should here?
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Actually they do have the right. They have the clearance to do it. Usually they give the agency the benefit as to not impede. But in this case when there is so much covering up, they need to step in.
 
logger said:
Actually they do have the right. They have the clearance to do it.
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Having security clearance is not the same as having the right during an ongoing investigation. The DOJ is an executive branch department, not legislative. By whose authority do congressional members have the right to see FBI documents during an ongoing investigation?
 
Upchurch said:
Having security clearance is not the same as having the right during an ongoing investigation. The DOJ is an executive branch department, not legislative. By whose authority do congressional members have the right to see FBI documents during an ongoing investigation?
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Because it is oversight.
 
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