Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[Tomtomkent]

I still think the death of JFK is more complicated than just Oswald. Jack Ruby is a mysterious character. It's not just me who thinks that either. A lot of people with information seemed to have died mysterious or unexplained deaths or suicides over the years. There is some interesting waffle about the matter at this website:

https://www.activistpost.com/2017/11/warnings-before-jfk-murder.html

Sorry, but I disagree.
The mystery, or "unexplained" nature is applied after the fact, in exactly the same way see with the "curses" applied to movies like the exorcist, or Poltergeist, or with the "Killer Clinton" conspiracy theories.
People look for significance that the evidence does not support.

 

[manifesto]

Are you claiming the Z film and the x-rays are manipulated?

I’m claiming that the x-rays are manipulated/fabricated, yes. The Z-film could be manipulated with a black patch painted over the right back of JFK’s head from Z-313 forward, but it could also be naturally shadowed, I’m still not sure.

 

[jeffas69]

Another diabolical coincidence? Well, that is kind of your little specialty, isn’t it, Hank?
.

See post 3135.

 

[manifesto]

I still think the death of JFK is more complicated than just Oswald. Jack Ruby is a mysterious character. It's not just me who thinks that either. A lot of people with information seemed to have died mysterious or unexplained deaths or suicides over the years. There is some interesting waffle about the matter at this website:

https://www.activistpost.com/2017/11/warnings-before-jfk-murder.html

Of course it was a right wing conspiracy, but do you believe that Oswald in any way took part in it?

 

[RoboTimbo]

I’m claiming that the x-rays are manipulated/fabricated, yes.

When can we expect you to provide evidence of that?

The Z-film could be manipulated with a black patch painted over the right back of JFK’s head from Z-313 forward, but it could also be naturally shadowed, I’m still not sure.

This means nothing.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Of course it was a right wing conspiracy, but do you believe that Oswald in any way took part in it?

It's always enlightening when CTists talk about what they "believe" rather than what they have "evidence" for.

 

[jeffas69]

The x-rays are fabrications, yes. The Z-film could be manipulated with a black patch over the right back of JFK’s head from Z-313 forward.

It is the alternative to this (fabricated x-rays) that is virtually impossible.

Dodging Jean Hill TV interviews noted.

 

[manifesto]

Dodging Jean Hill TV interviews noted.

Say, what?

 

[HSienzant]

The railroad tracks are behind the picket fence on the knoll. The tripple underpass railway bridge is the trippel underpass railway bridge.

1. You admitted that Adams was a ”knoll witness”

Yes. No acrobatics.

EDIT: But upon reflection, I may have been premature in that assessment. Given the fact that the face of the overpass is a structure ripe for echoes, and that Lee Bowers remarked upon that, Victoria Adams belief that the shots came from below and to her left (from her position on the fourth floor) doesn't of necessity mean the knoll. It's assumed by your conspiracy source (and by you) but it could be she heard the echoes from the overpass.

2. You are saying that Altgens first thought that the shots came from the TSBD but changed his mind when told that the shots actually came from the, TSBD? Correct?

No. I'm saying what Altgens verifiably said: That he initially thought the head shot came from beside the car from a pistol or behind the car but he saw nobody close enough to be firing from there. Your claim about what Altgens supposedly said is unsourced. The acrobatics is from your begging the question and presenting unsourced claims as evidence.

3. You are arguing that ”the railway tracks” is a code word Arce is using for ”the tripple underpass bridge”? Correct?

I'm saying railroad tracks that extend from behind the Depository across the overpass and all the way behind the post annex building on Commerce (and all the way to New Orleans) doesn't of necessity narrow it down to "the knoll". I'm saying it's begging the question for conspiracy addicts to assume that. I'm saying you need to establish that instead of begging the question and assuming that's what Arce meant. In other words:

You are the one making the claims above, you are the one who need to substantiate them with supporting evidence. Do it.

Looks like Hank is in good shape for his usual acrobatics, doesn’t it, Hank?

The acrobatics are all from your side of the net. I've got my feet (and my thoughts) planted firmly on the ground. I'm asking for your evidence, not your assumptions and your logic fallacies.

Hank

 

[jeffas69]

Say, what?

See Hank's post #3115. That is the one I was referring to. I was not talking about any X-rays. It was right there in my post as well.

 

[HSienzant]

The source is Stewart Galanor in his book, Cover-up (See Document 28).

https://www.history-matters.com/analysis/witness/artScience.htm

So one conspiracy source (you) quoting another conspiracy source (History-Matters) quoting a third (Galanor) quoting an unseen document.

Show me the document.

You mean, not a source sanctioned by your Mighty Church of the Lone Assassin? Well, I simply have to disapoint you on that one, Hank. Solly.

A not unexpected development, since it's long been established your sources are all conspiracy sites, and not first hand documents.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

The cross-talk WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE ON AN OPEN TRANSCEIVER. If it was stuck open you cannot receive or hear incoming radio communications...and yet they are on the recording. Channel 1 is audible on this recording of Channel 2. That only is possible by an officer at the Trade Mart whose mike is open, and recording the sound of Channel 1 being played over a loudspeaker, which is what happened.

I thought it was parked next to another motorcycle, the radio of which was tuned to channel one, hence the picking up of the cross talk.

Hank

 

[manifesto]

It's always enlightening when CTists talk about what they "believe" rather than what they have "evidence" for.

”It is so important to understand that one of the primary means of immobilizing the American people politically today is to hold them in a state of confusion in which anything can be believed but nothing can be known, nothing of significance that is.” ~ E. Martin Schotz, 1992.​

Except for you and your fellow members in the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut. You just ”know” stuff, don’t you?

 

[RoboTimbo]

[I][INDENT]”It is so important to understand that one of the primary means of immobilizing the American people politically today is to hold them in a state of confusion in which [U]anything can be believed but nothing can be known[/U], nothing of significance that is.” ~ E. Martin Schotz, 1992.[/INDENT][/I]
Except for you and your fellow members in the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut. You just ”know” stuff, don’t you?

Don't be mad at me because you are getting your ass handed to you . It's your fault you swallow as much nonsense as you can from your CT websites.

How about that evidence for the x-rays being manipulated? Or an answer for why Oswald went on to murder Officer Tippitt after assassinating JFK and then attempting to murder more officers in the theater when they had him cornered? With the revolver he was proved to own and which was proved to be used for Officer Tippitt's murder?

 

[HSienzant]

More? How about fake Secret Service agents on Dealey Plaza shortly after the shooting? One behind the picket fence flashig his fake ID to the cops comming up there looking for the shooter.

Except he was a Treasury Department agent, but whatever.

The problem Manifesto (and other CTs) have is that almost everyone who saw someone in plain clothes running around assumed they were Secret Service.

Oswald was stopped at the doorway by a reporter and asked where the nearest phone was (this has been variously identified as Pierce Allman or Robert MacNeil). Oswald in his interrogation sessions claimed he was asked by a Secret Service agent.

Even Oswald was identified as a secret service agent, believe it or not, simply because he was seen with a rifle on the sixth floor:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rowland_a.htm

== QUOTE ==
Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Rowland, will you recount as precisely and as specifically as you can, the exact conversation between you and your wife from the time you first noticed this man until your conversation about the man concluded, indicating what you said and what she said in language as closely as you can recollect it.
Mr. ROWLAND - That is a whopper.
I am almost sure I told her or asked her, did she want to see a Secret Service agent. She said, "Where," and I said, "In the building there," and at that time she told me to look--I remember what she was looking at. Right directly across from us in this plaza in front of the pond there was a colored boy that had an epileptic fit or something of this type right then, and she pointed this out to me and there were a couple of officers there and a few moments later they called an ambulance, this is what she told me to look at then, and we looked at this for a short period of time, and then I told her to look in the building, the second floor from the top and on that end, the two open windows, is I think what 1 said, and I said, "He is not there now."
I think that is what I said. She said, "What did he look like," and I told her just that--I gave her more or less a brief description of what he looked like, open collared shirt, light-colored shirt, and he had a rifle, I described the rifle in as much detail as I have to you to her.
Mr. SPECTER - You described the rifle to her in as much detail as you have to us?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes.
And then she said something about wishing she could have seen him but he was probably somewhere else in another part of the building watching people now. Then we were discussing again, just preceding that we were discussing the event with Mr. Stevenson, this was about 2 weeks beforehand, this was fresh on our mind, and right after that we started discussing that it was a security man.
We were looking around, we became very security conscious. We noted that policemen, I think there were maybe 2, maybe 3 on the viaduct itself; some 20 or 30, I would say 20 to 25 policemen being in that immediate area.
Representative FORD - About what time, as you can best recollect, did this conversation with your wife take place?
Mr. ROWLAND - About 5 minutes until about 22 after. I think I again looked at my watch.
...
Representative FORD - Did it ever enter your mind that you should go and tell the policeman of this sight or this vision that you had seen?
Mr. ROWLAND - Really it didn't.
Representative FORD - It never entered your mind?
Mr. ROWLAND - I never dreamed of anything such as that. I mean, I must honestly say my opinion was based on movies I have seen, on the attempted assassination of Theodore Roosevelt where they had Secret Service men up in the building such as that with rifles watching the crowds, and another one concerned with attempted assassination of the other one, Franklin Roosevelt. and both of these had Secret Service men up in windows or on top of buildings with rifles, and this is how my opinion was based and why it didn't alarm me.
Perhaps if I had been older and had more experience in life it might have made a difference. It very well could have.
== UNQUOTE ==

Conspiracy addicts go from these assumptions to the argument that since no secret service agents stayed in Dealey Plaza, there must have been people with fake secret service credentials in Dealey Plaza.

Moreover, Forrest Sorrels, a Secret Service agent working in Dallas, was in the motorcade and hopped in a police car and came back to the area of the Depository within about 20 minutes of the assassination.

And as Axxman notes, the HSCA did their darnedest to find this man, and narrowed it down to it most likely being a Treasury agent named Frank Ellsworth or Military Intelligence man James Powell.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

”It is so important to understand that one of the primary means of immobilizing the American people politically today is to hold them in a state of confusion in which anything can be believed but nothing can be known, nothing of significance that is.” ~ E. Martin Schotz, 1992.​

Except for you and your fellow members in the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut. You just ”know” stuff, don’t you?

It helps if you keep your eye on the ball, e.g., follow the evidence.

Hank

 

[Axxman300]

No. It means that there is always smoke, more or less, depending on rifle and ammo. The shooter could have loaded his own ammo with more gunpowder, etc.

No matter what, witnesses thought that they saw smoke comming down the knoll in connection to hearing shot/s comming from there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!.....No.

Look up Cordite. If you want people to think you know what you're talking about, and in this case you clearly do not, you should know that CORDITE is used as the propellant in modern firearms.

Black powder is for hobbyists, and muzzle-loaders.

There was no smoke in Dealey Plaza, there in no smoke in any of the photographs.

You fail again.

 

[Axxman300]

I thought it was parked next to another motorcycle, the radio of which was tuned to channel one, hence the picking up of the cross talk.

Hank

Smart Cookie posted a video a few pages back with an interview with one of the Academy of Science guys who debunked the HSCA acoustical nonsense. I think that's what he says.

 

[traxy]

I’m claiming that the x-rays are manipulated/fabricated, yes.

How?

The Z-film could be manipulated with a black patch painted over the right back of JFK’s head from Z-313 forward, but it could also be naturally shadowed, I’m still not sure.

How and when was it faked? And why does every other source show the exact same thing as Zapruder? 3 films and a Polaroid shot immediately after the headshot, no rear head damage in any of them. Were they all painted over too?

Please say yes, please say yes, please say yes

 

[manifesto]

Don't be mad at me because you are getting your ass handed to you . It's your fault you swallow as much nonsense as you can from your CT websites.

How about that evidence for the x-rays being manipulated? Or an answer for why Oswald went on to murder Officer Tippitt after assassinating JFK and then attempting to murder more officers in the theater when they had him cornered? With the revolver he was proved to own and which was proved to be used for Officer Tippitt's murder?

Comming from a dude that uses little blue idiot smileys as sufficient evidence + argument + source for trashing everything not to his/her liking, I have to say I’m a little bit impressed by this newfound effort.

Just a little bit