• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Define “Atheist”

David Mo said:
I am interested in the definition of atheist'. But not in your personal opinion that you present as the only possible one. I'm trying to unblock the subject.


So what, then? So much theistic is the one who believes in one god as the other who believes in fifty. Or is it not?
Click to expand...

As I keep going back to - we have a whole slew of "god" and "gods" that theists say they believe in, so I say lets deal with the gods that people actually believe exist when we talk about atheism. It really makes no kind of sense to create a definition of god that excludes the gods that the vast majority of the theists say they believe in and define atheism in regards to that.
 
Darat said:
As I keep going back to - we have a whole slew of "god" and "gods" that theists say they believe in, so I say lets deal with the gods that people actually believe exist when we talk about atheism. It really makes no kind of sense to create a definition of god that excludes the gods that the vast majority of the theists say they believe in and define atheism in regards to that.
Click to expand...

There is no point in waiting for the twenty thousand religions that exist in the world to manifest here what they think a god is to discuss atheism and theism. We'd never get started that way.
Let's start with what we here understand by "god" and if anyone understands something different let them say it.

Someone is a theist if he affirms that at least a god exists. Go on.
 
David Mo said:
There is no point in waiting for the twenty thousand religions that exist in the world to manifest here what they think a god is to discuss atheism and theism. We'd never get started that way.
Let's start with what we here understand by "god" and if anyone understands something different let them say it.

Someone is a theist if he affirms that at least a god exists. Go on.
Click to expand...

And someone is an atheist if they don't affirm at least a god exists.

Seems like we've got it all sorted!
 
ynot said:
Fossil evidence is only evidence that dinosaurs did and can exist. Nothing to do with whether they still exist or not. Much more than can be said about gods.

If all dinosaurs have evolved into birds then dinosaurs aren’t extinct. Are you claiming all dinosaurs evolved into birds and “Dinosaurs are extinct” is false? If not, is saying “Dinosaurs that didn’t evolve into birds are extinct” equally as irrational as saying “Gods don’t exist”?

Replace “Dinosaur” with “Dodo” if it helps.


Santa is known to be a myth created for people. "It is known to be contrived and his literal existence is never entertained by adults" is irrelevant, and at best is an "argument ad (adult) populum" fallacy. The analogy is sound. Where’s my cigar? (not that I’ve ever smoked).

Replace “Santa” with “Bigfoot“ if it helps. Many adults very much entertain their literal existence.


To claim belief in the existence of gods is a unique (special) argument with a unique (special) status very much special pleading. Your examples of unique (special) arguments could apply to all things for which there's no evidence.


Which god belief do you want defined, and why do you ignore all the others? I not only don't believe/reject all god beliefs, I also don't believe/reject all other paranormal beliefs. The only definition of gods beliefs I need to not believe/reject them all is that they are all paranormal beliefs.
Click to expand...

You appear to be having an entirely different discussion.
 
Darat said:
And someone is an atheist if they don't affirm at least a god exists.

Seems like we've got it all sorted!
Click to expand...

And what do you call a person who claims that no god exists?
And what do you call a person who claims that you can't tell if there is a god or not?
Both are atheists according your definition because neither of them affirms that a god exists. Are they two different kinds of atheists?
 
Last edited:
"The chair is blue"

Whoa whoa whoa there cowboy. Are you saying you affirm the chair is blue? Are you saying that you claim the chair is blue? Are you saying you believe the chair is blue? Are you saying that you don't affirm that the chair isn't blue? Are you saying...

Who the hell cares? This is pedantics with an ulterior motive.
 
Marcus said:
Also, since it is apparent that you would not put babies in the atheist category, how would you classify them?
Click to expand...
I find this a genuinely bizarre question.

Babies have no concept of god or religion. In fact they lack the intellectual capacity to have any concept of such things.

Trying to classify the religious beliefs of babies is almost a category error.

Bananas don't believe in God. Therefore they lack a belief in God. Are bananas therefore atheists or agnostics or some other type of non-believer? It's a rather daft question, isn't it?

That said, I've never understood the fascination and effort that so many atheists have with these endless and pointless arguments over the minutiae of how the word 'atheist' is defined. Semantics, etymology, purely academic philosophical arguments, etc.

There's endless lists of things people don't believe in. Does any of the other nonsense we don't believe in need to be similarly sliced and diced and quantified, or is religion special because so many people happen to take it seriously?
 
Theist have strong motivation to make sure discussions about the existence of God never operate on the same rules as other discussions because talking about God differently becomes one of the proofs that God is different, which thing strengthens their argument that he has to be talked about differently, which requires even more pointless hairsplitting which strengthens their argument further and 20 goto 10.

And this works because people don't understand that language inexactly describes reality it doesn't create it literally and argue that "Well these two words have some technical dictionary difference so they have to be describing some valid distinction we have to acknowledge" and we don't. You can call the bottle of tomato based condiment in my fridge catsup or ketchup, it's still the same thing. Those two distinct words don't force us into a real world practical distinction we have to acknowledge.

By forcing non-theistic people to argue their stances and opinions across this huge swath of distinctions without difference theist have make it so we're arguing nothing.

I and the language I use is not beholden to nuance that other people are making up just so their argument is harder to argue against.

"Is a baby an atheist or an agnostic?" That's the dumbest question ever asked. We don't hairsplit any distinction between "Negative opinion and lack of ability/context to from an opinion yet" in anyway equivalent to that anywhere else. We don't have crisis of faith over whether a baby is a Democrat or a Republican or if there lack of ability to form an opinion puts them into some magical third special category.

As we sit here and hairsplit meaningless minutia about level of disbelief and strong v weak disbelief... context which are 100% meaningless when discussing anything else, we just force ourselves into position where nothing we say has any meaning or strength behind it.

And I refuse to do it. "There is no God." I refuse to rewrite that to frame it the theisticly preferred version.
 
JoeMorgue said:
...

And I refuse to do it. "There is no God." I refuse to rewrite that to frame it the theisticly preferred version.
Click to expand...

I don't care if there is a God or not. I have found out, that I don't know if there is a God or not and that I can have a life without believing in God.
So again I don't care if there is a God or not.

As to the theists and what not, who need to box me in as though I am religious, then here is the God, that I don't believe in.

God is all powerful, but bored. She created Satan and asked Satan what she should do for fun. Satan said: "Since you are the source of everything and all powerful, create a materialistic universe without souls, heaven and hell and the humans in it will die, when they die.
God answered: I like it. Let there be light!

Stop claiming knowledge, evidence or what ever for something you don't know. You don't know if there is at least one god and or not. So live your life as you!

With regard
 
JoeMorgue said:
"The chair is blue"

Whoa whoa whoa there cowboy. Are you saying you affirm the chair is blue? Are you saying that you claim the chair is blue? Are you saying you believe the chair is blue? Are you saying that you don't affirm that the chair isn't blue? Are you saying...

Who the hell cares? This is pedantics with an ulterior motive.
Click to expand...

This has a familiar ring to it. Reminiscent of "Quite obvious to anyone the Sun orbits the Earth, by golly."

Meaning, there is a time and a place even for cowboys to wonder if their foundational postulates are showing, if only once in a blue... moon.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Not even close but whatever...
Click to expand...

How is it going in objective reality? How are you feeling? Sorry, that is subjective! So you don't feeling anything, right? Because you are in objective reality???

Care to give evidence for the fact of objective reality?
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
I don't care if there is a God or not. I have found out, that I don't know if there is a God or not and that I can have a life without believing in God.
So again I don't care if there is a God or not.

As to the theists and what not, who need to box me in as though I am religious, then here is the God, that I don't believe in.

God is all powerful, but bored. She created Satan and asked Satan what she should do for fun. Satan said: "Since you are the source of everything and all powerful, create a materialistic universe without souls, heaven and hell and the humans in it will die, when they die.
God answered: I like it. Let there be light!

Stop claiming knowledge, evidence or what ever for something you don't know. You don't know if there is at least one god and or not. So live your life as you!

With regard
Click to expand...
Getting close, but not quite close enough to join the club yet. Keep trying.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
I don't need to join your club to have a life. I have a life without being religious and without being a strong atheist.
Click to expand...
Club membership doesn't require that you need to join the club. You just need to stop using terms like "strong atheist" because that's merely a label that's open to the abuse of misinterpretation. You merely self-proclaim that you "don't believe in any god or gods", and that's all you need to do in response to theism. If you want to go further and explain that you also "don't claim there isn't a god" that's fine, but it isn't necessary. Club members wouldn't label that as being a "weak atheist" however.

ETA - Club membership has nothing to do with "having a life", other than it's hard to be an active member without "having a life".
 
Last edited:
The Church of God the Utterly Indifferent.

I'm not sure where I fit in on the spectrum, but this Kurt Vonnegut construction has stuck in my mind for 40 years.
 
Minoosh said:
The Church of God the Utterly Indifferent.

I'm not sure where I fit in on the spectrum, but this Kurt Vonnegut construction has stuck in my mind for 40 years.
Click to expand...
The club is looking for a catchy name. "Thank God I'm an Atheist" was briefly considered, but quickly rejected because it contains the "atheist" label. "Thank god I don't believe in a god" perhaps?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom