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Dover Penn ID trial

Flo said:
They must have learnt the process from the snake-oil salesmen who managed to turn their miracle cancer drugs into miracle aids drugs almost overnight ...
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You mean miracle cancer and aids "dietary supplements".
 
Soapy Sam said:
Perhaps the problem is that the Church of England has lacked extremist, fundamentalist, waggly beard bigots for so long that the folk down south have forgotten what religious bigotry is like.
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Judging from the photo in today's Grauniad Stephen Green is working on the beard aspect of his presentation, but it doesn't look sufficiently waggly yet.

James Anderton had quite a good one though.
 
Defendant´s case is up next week and dont you know it, one "expert" witness is...Michael Behe of irreproducible...sorry, "irreducible complexity" fame. This is going to be good, clean family entertainment! :D :D
 
Pastor Bentonit said:
Defendant´s case is up next week and dont you know it, one "expert" witness is...Michael Behe of irreproducible...sorry, "irreducible complexity" fame. This is going to be good, clean family entertainment! :D :D
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I think Brown indicated that Johnson was going to be called as well... :D
 
Pastor Bentonit said:
Defendant´s case is up next week and dont you know it, one "expert" witness is...Michael Behe of irreproducible...sorry, "irreducible complexity" fame. This is going to be good, clean family entertainment! :D :D
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Oh, it will definitely be interesting. One of the nice things about courts is that the rules are set up that a witness can't change the subject or wriggle out of a line of questioning that itsn't going his way, unlike a debate. Michael Behe is a brilliant debater, but I suspect he's going to get his ass handed to him, on a plate, with a side of chips.

If you read Behe's expert report, he is presenting the same-old, same-old examples of irreducible complexity, including the flagellum and the blood clotting cascade. If you check out Miller's testimony and expert report (same ACLU site), Miller has already presented a pretty damning analysis that those are not, in fact, irreducibly complex, complete with PowerPoint animations and a a few citations to Science, Nature, and Cell -- apparently (something I didn't know already) blood clotting has been known not to be irreducibly complex since 1969!

So I can see the question from the attorney during cross now. "You testified that with a single factor missing, blood clotting cannot occur. You have heard Dr. Miller's testimony that dolphins are missing such a factor, and that their blood still clots. Do you disagree with Dr. Miller? Do you agree that this fact was published over thirty years ago? Are you incompetent not to know this, or were you perjuring yourself?"
 
Is it just me, or do things like this get anyone else all worked up to the point they're all "GRRARRRR... SKEPTIC SMASH!"?

I canceled my membership to the ACLU when I found out about them supporting NAMBLA, but this is a good cause and I'm glad they're fighting for it.
 
The state should not require you to advertise for a specific company's book.
 
Sounds like the Day 8 transcript, when available, is going to be epic.
 
Ed said:
I may point out to our Euro and Anti-podal buddies that this case is of great interest to you. [...] And, please, no arrogant "it can't happen here" crap.
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Oh, in some ways, it already has. Bear with me for a moment.

In the Netherlands, schools have a fair amount of autonomy in setting their own curriculum, but the bottom line is that every secondary school student--regardless of whether he or she attends a public or a religious school--must pass a final exam, the content of which is set by the state (i.e. the ministry of education). Now, I didn't take biology all the way to the final exam, so I didn't find out about this until recently, but the Dutch state exam curriculum for biology (or any other physical science) omits any mention of evolutionary theory. This is primarily as a result of continued pressure from hardline Calvinist activists who don't want their kids exposed to any idea which contradicts Genesis. As a result, it is possible to pass through the Dutch education system without ever hearing the word "evolution" (the main reason I didn't know this was because my school did teach evolution, but then, I went to a very good school).

What I'm trying to say here is that many of us have no room to be smug about Creationism in America. Just because Creationists are less noisy elsewhere doesn't mean they don't exist, or affect your child's education.

(Note that while I live in the US now, I am in fact a Dutch national.)
 
I've just noticed that the day 6 afternoon session transcript is now available on the ACLUPA website. It includes the first part of Barbara Forrest's cross-examination.
 
Mojo said:
I've just noticed that the day 6 afternoon session transcript is now available on the ACLUPA website. It includes the first part of Barbara Forrest's cross-examination.
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Thank you, I don't check every day.

Any idea when the creationist dudes are testifying?
 
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