Cont: The Trump Presidency VI

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I’ve celebrated his fighting back.

You also said that you were "tired" of "these attacks going unanswered". Which leads to the question of why non-presidents on the right answering the attacks of the non-presidents on the left doesn't count as an answer. Why is that "going unanswered"?

And you specifically said that Trump was using "the same tactics of the left" when he insulted people. Yet, when pressed, you couldn't point to anybody other than a talk show host who uses "the same tactics" as Trump. Given that right-wing talk show hosts also insult people, what is it that makes insulting people "the same tactics of the left"?
Do you celebrate them doing it?

 

[logger]

Some people are pissed off because someone finally had the guts to call out the White House correspondents to their face for their hypocrisy and gutlessness in not standing up to an authoritarian who has done everything in his power to try to undermine the free press and the rule of law. Along with making clear what a liar Sanders is - something the correspondents should have been doing from the get go.

This just isn’t reality and it proves my point. This president doesn’t lie anymore than any other. The left thinks policy disagreements are lies. Thinks a president touting himself and the things he’d like to do are lies. It’s truly amazing how everything this president says is compared to their leftist world view. If it doesn’t match, it’s a lie. It’s truly pathetic to watch.

That some authoritarian groupies like you are also pissed off is irrelevant. Authoritarian groupies are the biggest snowflakes on the planet.

Surprise, a personal attack. Once again, I’m not his groupie, he is only the current place holder for the side I vote for.

I don't care about the dinner. When the press understood who Trump was and what he represented that should have stopped playing ball with him - that would have been early in 2016. Instead they have let this administration lie with impunity. They should be ashamed of themselves, and ashamed that it took a comedian to point out how far the rot is with them.

And of course I think he shouldn’t talk to them either. He should talk with outlets who have the least amount of obvious bias. That way, many of these corrupt media outs will go out of business And the press can once again take its place as the 4th branch of government with its integrity intact.

 

[logger]

You also said that you were "tired" of "these attacks going unanswered". Which leads to the question of why non-presidents on the right answering the attacks of the non-presidents on the left doesn't count as an answer. Why is that "going unanswered"?

You really can’t understand that the people on the left, the typical left, are the ones I’ve been discussing this whole time?

And you specifically said that Trump was using "the same tactics of the left" when he insulted people. Yet, when pressed, you couldn't point to anybody other than a talk show host who uses "the same tactics" as Trump. Given that right-wing talk show hosts also insult people, what is it that makes insulting people "the same tactics of the left"?
Do you celebrate them doing it?

Lordy!

Look at the latest correspondents dinner and that will give you a start on attacks from the left.

As far as talk radio, yes I support them. I support the president fighting back, I support anyone fighting back against the LOSER left.

 

[phiwum]

I agree - this is sadly the best explanation. People are pissed at a comedian because they think that comedian expressed their own shallow views of Sanders. They assume that the comedian wouldn't be talking about her dishonesty and lack of integrity because most people have thrown that out the window to survive or prosper in the world of Trump.

I haven't seen the roast, but I've read some of the comments Wolf made. I like her, but I could see some of the comments falling flat.

She's pretty caustic. Glad to hear that there was no fat shaming involved, because that's not really her style.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Lol

People are pissed because it’s an angry pissed off sad time at the dinner. Look at all the really good comedians they could invite and yet they invite these angry pissed off leftists, second tier comedians. It’s done for a reason.

LOL, remind me again why I should care that a bunch of snowflakes and world class hypocrites were upset about someone speaking the truth when they expected a trained monkey act.

 

[phiwum]

There is a world of difference between the past affairs of Kennedy/Clinton and what Trump does.

Kennedy and Clinton did engage in extramarital sex. But such activities were meant to be private, and did not affect their performance as president. When they were "on the job" they were exactly as most people would want a president to be... calm, reassuring, stable.

On the other hand, many/most of Trump's failures are visible to the world (largely because they appealed to his base), and more importantly they affect his policies. When Trump said that neo-nazis were "fine people", it was not some private comment he made to friends, he stated it in front of the media, so that the entire world now sees that the U.S. elected a racist for president. When Trump rails on about people voting illegally or "which hunts" he's not talking in private but putting his tweets and his speeches out there for everyone to see.

If someone were to want to apply the labels, Clinton/Kennedy/Obama/etc. would be classified as "alpha males". Flawed perhaps, but people with confidence and ability that let them function as leaders. Trump is at best a Beta male, if not a gamma. He is a snowflake. Easily manipulated, incompetent, narcissist yet always seeking approval. He is only in the position he is in because of luck (being born into a wealthy family made him rich; assistance by the Russians made him president). Had Trump been born into a middle class family, he would not be president; instead, he would be working at a fast-food restaurant, asking "Do you want a large fries with that? They're YUGE!"

I totally agree that Trump's public statements are horrible, but that Kennedy and others hid their affairs was more a matter of the times, not their discretion. The press wasn't was aggressive back then.

 

[Wayward son]

This just isn’t reality and it proves my point. This president doesn’t lie anymore than any other. The left thinks policy disagreements are lies.

Trump lies far, far more than any President or Presidential candidate ever has. This is not even close. And no, this has nothing to do with politics. There are plenty on the far right and far left who hold political positions that I dislike far more than Trump. They are wrong, just like Trump is. But they are not shameless liars like he is.

Surprise, a personal attack. Once again, I’m not his groupie, he is only the current place holder for the side I vote for.

You are not just a groupie, you are shameless liar for Trump. You are like Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf except at least he was doing his job. You would like to set up a North Korea-like state here because you are that delusional about your own positions.

I am not trying to shame you or change your mind. I am just pointing up what you are.

An interview with Frank Schaeffer from 9 years ago where he talked about the religious far-right is more appropriate for looking at the alt-right, white nationalists and the rest of the Trump/Authoritarian groupies.

---
Maddow: … How do you work to move people off of that position? It doesn’t seem like facts are relevant in trying to move people away from these beliefs.

Schaeffer: You don’t work to move them off this position. You move past them.

Look, a village cannot reorganize village life to suit the village idiot. It’s as simple as that, and we have to understand: we have a village idiot in this country. It’s called fundamentalist Christianity. (alt-right, white nationalists, Trump/authoritarian groupies)

And, until we move past these people, and let me add as a former life-long Republican, until the Republican leadership has the guts to stand up and say it would be better not to have a Republican party than to have a party that caters to the village idiot, uh, there’s gonna be no end in sight.

---
It might be too late to move past the alt-right/white nationalists/Trump/Authoritarian groupies. That time was in early 2016, but instead the media didn't do their jobs, and the voting population refused to take this trainwreck of unenlightened, racist, sexist, fascist idiocy seriously. We might need to hit rock bottom and then hope that society can recover over the subsequent decades.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

You really can’t understand that the people on the left, the typical left, are the ones I’ve been discussing this whole time?

The question is why doesn't people on the right answering those things count unless they're Trump?

Lordy!

Look at the latest correspondents dinner and that will give you a start on attacks from the left.

You mean Trump's entire presidential style is based on the fact that last night, at a roast, he got roasted? Is he a time-traveller who does't understand what a roast is?

And, again, are you making the claim that right-wing talk show hosts, media personalities and, if Michelle Wolff counts, comedians, never insult the left? Why doesn't that count?

As far as talk radio, yes I support them. I support the president fighting back, I support anyone fighting back against the LOSER left.

And the people you consider having insulted you personally? Do you celebrate them? Do you respect them for fighting back against you? Is anybody on the left now someone you would admire if they insulted you, because you've now called them a "LOSER"? Would that be worthy of celebration?

Is the only determinant for whether an insult is reprehensible or laudable whether it's made by someone on the left or the right?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

News media reports Kelly called Trump an idiot. Was it a leak by someone who wants to push Kelly out? Is Kelly already sidelined anyway?

 

[alfaniner]

News media reports Kelly called Trump an idiot. Was it a leak by someone who wants to push Kelly out? Is Kelly already sidelined anyway?

The chyron I just saw said "KELLY DENIES CALLING TRUMP AN IDIOT".

 

[Segnosaur]

There is a world of difference between the past affairs of Kennedy/Clinton and what Trump does.

Kennedy and Clinton did engage in extramarital sex. But such activities were meant to be private, and did not affect their performance as president.
...
On the other hand, many/most of Trump's failures are visible to the world

I totally agree that Trump's public statements are horrible, but that Kennedy and others hid their affairs was more a matter of the times, not their discretion. The press wasn't was aggressive back then.

While it is true that the press today would be more aggressive in going after stories about the president having an affair, it still doesn't change the main fact: whatever failings Clinton or Kennedy had, they were personal and did not affect their abilities as president.

This is completely different than Trump, who's failings are completely intertwined with his presidential performance.

 

[jimbob]

While it is true that the press today would be more aggressive in going after stories about the president having an affair, it still doesn't change the main fact: whatever failings Clinton or Kennedy had, they were personal and did not affect their abilities as president.

This is completely different than Trump, who's failings are completely intertwined with his presidential performance.

Scale-invariant personality defects.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Is the only determinant for whether an insult is reprehensible or laudable whether it's made by someone on the left or the right?

Yes. Of course.

If there is anything at all to have been learned from the right in these past decades, it is that when someone on the right does it, that means it's okay.

For them, that is. No others warrant such tolerance.

It's the only kind of tolerance the right does anymore.

 

[quadraginta]

The chyron I just saw said "KELLY DENIES CALLING TRUMP AN IDIOT".

"Never believe anything until it is officially denied."

And anyway, only an idiot would believe that Kelly hasn't called Trump an idiot.

Maybe not this this particular time, but I find it difficult to credit that there hasn't been others.

Lots of 'em, I expect.

I also suspect it would be among the mildest of invective he has used to describe Trump.

 

[phiwum]

While it is true that the press today would be more aggressive in going after stories about the president having an affair, it still doesn't change the main fact: whatever failings Clinton or Kennedy had, they were personal and did not affect their abilities as president.

This is completely different than Trump, who's failings are completely intertwined with his presidential performance.

Goodness, I loathe Trump, but I'm not sure I agree here. If it turns out that paying off Daniels or others involved illegal contributions, then this should be pursued.

But aside from that, I guess I don't care. It's between him and his wife. Frankly, it doesn't make me think any less of the man, because nothing short of murder or rape would do so. But even if I liked him, heaven forfend, it isn't all that relevant to his role as president.

 

[jimbob]

Goodness, I loathe Trump, but I'm not sure I agree here. If it turns out that paying off Daniels or others involved illegal contributions, then this should be pursued.

But aside from that, I guess I don't care. It's between him and his wife. Frankly, it doesn't make me think any less of the man, because nothing short of murder or rape would do so. But even if I liked him, heaven forfend, it isn't all that relevant to his role as president.

Except for the possible vulnerability to blackmail?

 

[phiwum]

Except for the possible vulnerability to blackmail?

Well, in other circumstances, I'd have to concede the point. But with Trump? Only the piss tape would suffice for blackmail.

 

[Segnosaur]

While it is true that the press today would be more aggressive in going after stories about the president having an affair, it still doesn't change the main fact: whatever failings Clinton or Kennedy had, they were personal and did not affect their abilities as president.

This is completely different than Trump, who's failings are completely intertwined with his presidential performance.

Goodness, I loathe Trump, but I'm not sure I agree here. If it turns out that paying off Daniels or others involved illegal contributions, then this should be pursued.

But aside from that, I guess I don't care. It's between him and his wife. Frankly, it doesn't make me think any less of the man, because nothing short of murder or rape would do so. But even if I liked him, heaven forfend, it isn't all that relevant to his role as president.

I rather suspect that you have lost track of what this particular sub-discussion was about. Its more than just about affairs, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Daniels.

To summarize:

- One poster initially pointed out how other presidents respected the office but Trump does not.

- A pro-trump supporter jumped in and pointed out the extra-marital affairs of Kennedy and Clinton

- My statement was about how those affairs didn't affect the performance of Clinton or Kennedy in performing their role as president; i.e. they "respected the office", even if they engaged in affairs. On the other hand, Trump does not respect the office, since he regularly uses his position to push bigotry and partisanship in situations that it does not belong in.

Even if Trump had been completely faithful to Melania, it is irrelevant; the issue is not his moral failings as a husband, but his political failings as president.

 

[a_unique_person]

Goodness, I loathe Trump, but I'm not sure I agree here. If it turns out that paying off Daniels or others involved illegal contributions, then this should be pursued.

But aside from that, I guess I don't care. It's between him and his wife. Frankly, it doesn't make me think any less of the man, because nothing short of murder or rape would do so. But even if I liked him, heaven forfend, it isn't all that relevant to his role as president.

I thought it was a tawdry waste of time. Then the focus shifted to Cohen himself and it became much more interesting.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The chyron I just saw said "KELLY DENIES CALLING TRUMP AN IDIOT".

MSNBC was running on it when I went in the shower and was still running on it when I got out.

Fox is playing up the NK meeting and mentioning the Nobel word. They just brought up the 'idiot' story, brief mention, and they are reporting it as a lie by people in the WH who "have knives out for Kelly".

Now they are on to fear mongering Netanyahu's Iran 'evidence'.

On to CNN: back to the Kelly story, sure to piss Trump off not because of the name calling, but because they are reporting Kelly as the only adult in the room. That has to get under his skin at least as much as disloyal staff members.