Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[traxy]

How do you know the exact time he had to his disposal to reach the spot to pick up the sound from the first shot?

McLain is just entering the crosswalk at Main and Houston at Hughes frame 648.

The crosswalk is 174 feet from the outer edge of the first microphone position.

That frame matches up with Zapruder frame 150.

Visual and testimonial evidence puts the first shot at just before Z160. 10 frames at 18.3 frames per second gives you 0.546 seconds.

Don Thomas's study contradicts the visual and testimonial evidence and puts the first shot at Z175. 25 frames at 18.3 frames per second gives you 1.36 seconds.

174 feet in 0.546 seconds makes an average speed over that distance of 189mph.

174 feet over 1.36 seconds makes an average speed over that distance of 85mph.

Sneed, Larry A., 1998, page 163.

Not good enough, sorry. I linked you to McLain’s House Select Committee testimony and quoted direct passages from it. If you're going to claim he said something different, you need to do better than an authors name (I presume?) and a page number.

 

[manifesto]

If you look at the sequence of 147 through 152 you can see him pull in his right hand and look around, and most importantly you can see the Secret Service man riding on the rear step of the car behind the President looking down to the street, and under the car looking for the fire-cracker he thought had been tossed at the motorcade.

Hank probably can name him, he testified to this action in the Warren Commission, and it is clearly visible. That's why some think the first shot comes much earlier.

1. There is the false positive included in the preliminery screening by BBN but after test considered not to be impulse pattern from a fire arm. To few spikes in the pattern = not loud enough = fire crackers, vehicles back firing, other loud sound = explaining Connallys reaction befors the real shooting began.

2. Jack Ruby asked some of the employees in the News paper office if they were keen on coming with him to the president motorcade and looking at the ”fire works”, moments before disappearing from the office.

Hmm ....

 

[traxy]

I found the passage from Larry Sneed. It doesn't contradict his House testimony at all, and in fact makes it even more impossible for him to have gotten to the spot he needed to be at!

He also says the Book Depository building was straight in front of him, which puts him still on Houston street after the headshot. He needed to be halfway down Elm. Street at that point for your timing to be even close to working.

He says he saw the aftermath of the shooting (Jackie on the trunk of the limo) while STOPPED on Houston halfway between Main and Elm.

"When I made the turn onto Houston on the left side, we had caught up with the cars in front of us, and I had stopped right by the side of the entrance to the old jail, which is about midway between Main and Elm Streets on Houston. I heard one very clear shot. Evidently I must have felt like it was coming from straight ahead because at that instant I was looking down, and when I heard the shot, threw my head up and it appeared that about 5,000 pigeons flew out from behind that building (the Texas School Book Depository) straight ahead. In fact, I thought to myself, "Somebody's shooting at the pigeons!" But I could see the limousine off to my left on Elm and saw Mrs. Kennedy crawling on the back of the car. I had a good idea that somebody had been shot at but didn't know which one."

Sorry man, McLain’s testimony here is just as damaging to your case as his house testimony was.

 

[traxy]

https://muse.jhu.edu/chapter/743253

Here's Courson's testimony from that same book...and yeah, it straight up decimates you too.

You're not very good at this man, hate to break it to you.

"All was going well until we had just made a right tum from Main onto Houston Street due to the limousine having to make the sharp left tum up ahead on Elm which slowed the motorcade. We had to stop, thus I was sitting on my motorcycle in the left lane on Houston looking more or less at the Book Depository. That's when I heard the shots! I couldn't tell exactly from where the shots came because of the echo pattern, but there were three very distinct shots. The first two were fairly close together then there was more space between the second and third."

Courson was behind McLain for the whole motorcade. He was probably stopped closer to the crosswalk while McLain was stopped halfway down Elm or so, maybe a hundred feet apart.

Now we have not one, but two Dallas PD motorcycle officers stating that the motorcade came to a STOP on Houston street, and that it was stopped when the shooting happened. How did McLain make it halfway down Elm to be there for the headshot when he was STOPPED on Houston?

 

[Axxman300]

1. There is the false positive included in the preliminery screening by BBN but after test considered not to be impulse pattern from a fire arm. To few spikes in the pattern = not loud enough = fire crackers, vehicles back firing, other loud sound = explaining Connallys reaction befors the real shooting began.

First off, there is no reliable recording.

Second, we're not talking about Connally, we're talking about the Secret Service Agent on the chase-car who is clearly looking for what he thought was a firecracker, but there was no firecracker.

2. Jack Ruby asked some of the employees in the News paper office if they were keen on coming with him to the president motorcade and looking at the ”fire works”, moments before disappearing from the office.

Hmm ....

Which is weird because he was there at the Dallas Morning News when word JFK had been shot came in. Almost as if he had no idea what was going on, and was running his mouth as usual.

 

[Axxman300]

No, you have not. There is NO known photographic record of any of the spots at the right time of the recorded rifle shots. None.

There are no recordings of the sounds of the shooting.

The entire assassination is on film from three different vantage points.

The only way to go is by inference from the existing photographic record and NO, no one has proved from this that McLain couldn’t have been at this spots at the right time.

Not how it works. We've posted photos and video of him NOT ON ELM STREET during the shooting. That you do not accept the evidence is your failure.

On the contrary, the convergence of existing photographic evidence positions him exactly where he has to be for his stuck mike to pick up the sounds from the rifle shots recorded on the DPD ch-1 dictabelt.

Not even close.

On top of this, there is the acoustical evidence recorded on said dictabelt, PROVING that five rifle shots was fired at JFK at the precise time as the real event, and that McLain is the only MC cop who could have been on the bike with the stuck mike picking up the five impulse patterns from said rifle shots.

And yet he wasn't in the right place. And there were only three shots.

This is scientific PROOF of a conspiracy

No. The science all points to Oswald.

and that Oswald did not kill JFK, since the fatal shot was fired from the picket fence on the knoll i front of JFK,

Except there was no wound from the front, and the autopsy shows one bullet striking JFK in the upper back, and the other striking him in the back of the head. Both bullets were recovered.

No credible witnesses saw anyone behind the picket fence.

If you knew anything about guns you'd understand how dumb this allegation really is.

with a probability of less than1/100 000 being random noise.

It's not a reliable recording. McLain was not where the "scientists" claimed he was when they made their calculations.

Oswald is supposed to have been shooting from the TSBD, from the behind of the president.

 

[Axxman300]

No, the one who is lying is clearly, McLain.

Any idea why he would do that?

Gosh, maybe because the film and photographs back him up? (Lying under oath is bad, especially when there were many pictures taken that day).

McLain is changing his testimony when realizing it supports the acoustical evidence saying that the president was assassinated by a conspiracy.

Where do you put your trust, and why?

I trust a DPD motorcycle officer to tell the truth because he had no involvement in the assassination, and had no idea his transceiver was left open, and has told the same story from day one.

 

[manifesto]

McLain is just entering the crosswalk at Main and Houston at Hughes frame 648.

Agree.

The crosswalk is 174 feet from the outer edge of the first microphone position.

Agree.

That frame matches up with Zapruder frame 150.

Maybe.

Visual and testimonial evidence puts the first shot at just before Z160. 10 frames at 18.3 frames per second gives you 0.546 seconds.

There is a loud sound before the real shooting starts = Connallys reaction, maybe.

Don Thomas's study contradicts the visual and testimonial evidence and puts the first shot at Z175. 25 frames at 18.3 frames per second gives you 1.36 seconds.

174 feet in 0.546 seconds makes an average speed over that distance of 189mph.

174 feet over 1.36 seconds makes an average speed over that distance of 85mph.

To begin with, yes.

- Prove that the motorcade was traveling at the average speed that Myers claims it did on Houston Street.

- Prove that Hughes was positioned exactly where Myers claims he was.

- Prove that the motorcade on Houston moved like coaches_in_a_train as Myers claims and not as in an accordion fasion with a jam closing in on the Elm/Houston intersection.

And no, subjective ’line of sight’ or magical modelling with a computer animation doesn’t cut it. Falsifiable facts, does.

Have any?

Not good enough, sorry. I linked you to McLain’s House Select Committee testimony and quoted direct passages from it. If you're going to claim he said something different, you need to do better than an authors name (I presume?) and a page number.

Fair enough:

”... and I had stopped right by the side of the entrance to the old jail, which is about midway between Main and Elm Streets on Houston. I heard one very clear shot. Evidently I must have felt like it was coming from straight ahead because at that instant I was looking down, and when I heard the shot, threw my head up and it appeared that about 5,000 pigeons flew out from behind that building (the Texas School Book Depository) straight ahead. In fact, I thought to myself, “Somebody’s shooting at the pigeons!” But I could see the limousine off to my left on Elm and saw Mrs. Kennedy crawling on the back of the car.”

https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Sile...401&sr=8-1-fkmr3&keywords=No+more+silence+jfk​

 

[manifesto]

First off, there is no reliable recording.

Says who?

Second, we're not talking about Connally, we're talking about the Secret Service Agent on the chase-car who is clearly looking for what he thought was a firecracker, but there was no firecracker.

1. How do you know it wasn’t a firecracker?

2. Exactly, there were loud sounds before the real shooting started which very well could explain reactions before Z-175 where Thomas places the first shot.

3. There is acoustical evidence of a loud sound before the first detected rifle shot on the dictabelt = possible candidate to reactions before Z-175 where Thomas places the first shot.

Which is weird because he was there at the Dallas Morning News when word JFK had been shot came in. Almost as if he had no idea what was going on, and was running his mouth as usual.

No. There is a gap where he could have been at the motorcade at the Houston/Elm intersection. There is on top of this witnesses reporting seeing him there close after the shooting, Victoria Adams, for example.

 

[traxy]

There is a loud sound before the real shooting starts = Connallys reaction, maybe.

What was the loud noise?

Surely you're not going to suggest a firecracker was thrown less than a second before an assassin opened fire on the president.

Connally says it was gunfire.

- Prove that the motorcade was traveling at the average speed that Myers claims it did on Houston Street.

- Prove that Hughes was positioned exactly where Myers claims he was.

- Prove that the motorcade on Houston moved like coaches_in_a_train as Myers claims and not as in an accordion fasion with a jam closing in on the Elm/Houston intersection.

Why do any of those points matter in the least?

McLain says he didn't make it past halfway down Houston before the shooting was over. Both him and Courson agree that the motorcade stopped after the turn from main to Houston.

He was 174 feet away from the first microphone spot and had between 0.546 and 1.36 seconds to get there, necessitating an average speed between 85 and 189mph over that stretch, which in layman's terms means it didn't happen.

 

[manifesto]

There are no recordings of the sounds of the shooting.

Yes, there is and I have presented the evidence. If you have issues with this, cite it and explain.

The entire assassination is on film from three different vantage points.

And?

Not how it works. We've posted photos and video of him NOT ON ELM STREET during the shooting. That you do not accept the evidence is your failure.

”We”? Who are you refering to? The members of the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut? And, no, there is NO known photographic record of the spots at the time a bike with a mike picked up the recorded sounds from the shooting.

None.

Not even close.

Explain with reference to my arguments presented earlier.

And yet he wasn't in the right place.

Yes, he was.

And there were only three shots.

No, there is PROOF on the ch-1 dictabelt of five rifle shots, four from behind and one, the fatal, from in front, from the picket fence on the knoll

No. The science all points to Oswald.

What science?

Except there was no wound from the front,

Yes it was, a proven shot from the picket fence on the knoll.

and the autopsy shows one bullet striking JFK in the upper back,

Probed to be ca 3 cm deep and no bullet found.

and the other striking him in the back of the head.

- According to the autopsy team, the bullet hit the right back of the head. 4 cm to the right of the midline and at the EOP.

- According to HSCA medical panel + the x-rays at NARA, the same bullet hit right on the midline, in the cowlick area, about 11 cm above where the autopsy positions the entrance wound.

Who is right?

Both bullets were recovered.

Prove it.

No credible witnesses saw anyone behind the picket fence.

I guess the fact that they saw people behind the the fence makes them NOT credible, correct? Logic by the Mighty Church of the Lone Nut?

If you knew anything about guns you'd understand how dumb this allegation really is.

How come?

It's not a reliable recording.

According to whom? You? Lol.

McLain was not where the "scientists" claimed he was when they made their calculations.

Prove it.

 

[smartcooky]

This is scientific PROOF of a conspiracy and that Oswald did not kill JFK, since the fatal shot was fired from the picket fence on the knoll i front of JFK, with a probability of less than1/100 000 being random noise.

Show us the evidence, and explain that evidence to us. Cite your sources...

Note that anything sourced from nutcase conspiracy websites is not acceptable and will be dismissed out of hand.

Note that any evidence from deduction and not obtained from first principles is not acceptable; for example, you can't claim five shots were fired (evidence deduced from spurious dictabelt recordings) if you can't account for why the vast majority of witnesses only heard three or fewer shots (evidence from first principles). First you must prove that ALL the witnesses who heard three or less shots were wrong... not just your theory, you must prove it!

Account for all the facts previously listed (post #2009 and #2013).

Remember, by your own standards, you must account for everyone of them... that means if you cannot overturn every one of those facts, then you fail!

 

[abaddon]

No. I can prove there was a conspiracy and that the US Government covered it up and still do, 54 years later.

Is that like how you can prove that there was a 9 foot tall man armed with a musket on the grassy knoll?

 

[Henri McPhee]

They had that Jim DiEugenio on TV recently, who has brought out a new book on the JFK death after writing several books on the subject previously. He says there is no evidence at all that Oswald visited the Cuban or Russian embassy in Mexico, and that he was seen previously in the company of Jack Ruby. He thinks the mafia and CIA and Cuban exiles did it because they didn't like Kennedy's foreign policy.

There is a bit of complicated and academic waffle about all this at this website, which may be outside the understanding of the people on this forum:

https://www.justice-integrity.org/assassination-news

 

[smartcooky]

They had that Jim DiEugenio on TV recently, who has brought out a new book on the JFK death after writing several books on the subject previously. He says there is no evidence at all that Oswald visited the Cuban or Russian embassy in Mexico, and that he was seen previously in the company of Jack Ruby. He thinks the mafia and CIA and Cuban exiles did it because they didn't like Kennedy's foreign policy.

Recently released FBI documents flat out contradict this.

ETA: All the recently released FBI documents are available for download here...

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release

Have at it!

There is a bit of complicated and academic waffle about all this at this website, which may be outside the understanding of the people on this forum:

https://www.justice-integrity.org/assassination-news

Looks like JABONCT to me!

 

[bknight]

If you look at the sequence of 147 through 152 you can see him pull in his right hand and look around, and most importantly you can see the Secret Service man riding on the rear step of the car behind the President looking down to the street, and under the car looking for the fire-cracker he thought had been tossed at the motorcade.

Hank probably can name him, he testified to this action in the Warren Commission, and it is clearly visible. That's why some think the first shot comes much earlier.

Scrolling through that image sequence, I still don't see any reaction of JFK, other than completing a wave to the public, I do see JBC react at 150-151 to his right and the secret service guys near the sprocket holes looking down.

ETA:
I do see the yellow car about to make its turn on Elm an no mc in sight except those around the Presidental limo. I think that is the one that Myers synchronized with Hughes.

 

[smartcooky]

I've reviewed reports written by other officers related to cases I was involved with and simple compass points were reversed, vehicle tags were misreported sometimes (even with attached photos in a case file) and in some cases times reported where noted as PM when the correct time was AM.

Some years ago I received in the mail, a traffic offence notice for speeding in my Silver 2007 Subaru Impreza turbo. The place where I was supposed to have committed this offence was in Rotorua on a particular date. The problem was, I have never been to Rotorua, ever, least of all on the date in question. I wrote to the police and told them. They investigated and found that the traffic officer had swapped two of the digits around on the licence plate number. It just happened that the correct number was also a Silver Impreza but not a turbo and a different year (2006).

People make simple clerical errors all the time... even LEO's

 

[HSienzant]

1.

Jack Ruby asked some of the employees in the News paper office if they were keen on coming with him to the president motorcade and looking at the ”fire works”, moments before disappearing from the office. Hmm .... [emphasis added]

2.

Which is weird because he was there at the Dallas Morning News when word JFK had been shot came in. Almost as if he had no idea what was going on, and was running his mouth as usual. [emphasis added]

1.
I'd love to see the testimony from the employees that Ruby said anything about fireworks in the Dallas Morning News offices.

Let me help you out. Here's the testimony of the three people I'm aware of that worked at a Dallas newpaper:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/newnam.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rea.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/watherwax.htm

I invite Manifesto to read it for the first time. I invite him to tell us where those employees said anything about Ruby mentioning fireworks, at any time.


2.
I'd want to caution everyone again against accepting any claims made by conspiracy theorists anywhere, at any time. There is no documentation in the record that Ruby made any such statement as claimed by Manifesto. Conspiracy theorists never bother to ascertain the facts, nor read the testimony. They are more than happy to repeat some nonsense that is fourth, fifth, or sixth hand speculation mutated into 'fact' as if it's true.

Ruby was at the DNM office on the afternoon of 11/22/63 to revise the ad copy for his night club. No one testified to seeing him prior to 12:40.

Newnam (not Newman) said he first saw Ruby at "approximately 12:40", which is ten minutes after the assassination.

Rea said he first saw Ruby about 1 pm, "within 5 or 10 minutes either way" That is, between 12:50pm and 1:10pm.

Watherwax saw Ruby on 11/23/63, the day after the assassination, "about 5 minutes after 4" in the morning. This was to change his advertisement that his nightclubs would be closed Saturday, Sunday, and Monday nights (11/23 - 11/25) to honor the memory of the late President.

There is absolutely no testimony that Ruby saw any of the Dallas Morning News staff prior to the assassination, nor that he said anything about going to see the parade together, nor anything about fireworks.


Here's the truth:
In 1977, a man with a criminal record, Bob Vanderslice, who was also an IRS informant, told his IRS contact, Arlen Fuhlendorf, that he saw Ruby shortly before the assassination outside the postal annex (at the corner of Houston and Commerce, facing the Depository) and Vanderslice in 1977 said Ruby made that comment about the fireworks.

Fuhlendorf wrote up the claim in a memo, but said he never believed a word of it.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/...ory-just-bad-guy-telling-good-guy-great-story

So an undocumented claim, made 14 years after the assassination, with no verification whatsoever, somehow becomes a 'fact' to Manifesto and conspiracy theorists like him, and gets transmuted into the nonsense Manifesto claims.

Along the way, it mutates from one man to several hearing Jack make this claim. It mutates from an undocumented claim made 14 years after the fact by a low-level criminal, a burglar, to being sourced to honest newspapermen.

All to make it appear less specious.

And just in case there's any doubt, he adds the specious "Hmm ...." at the end as if to imply "Think about it. Of course this is suspicious! How could it not be?"

It's still just an unproven claim by Manifesto. He apparently specializes in those.

Hmm ....

Hank

 

[bknight]

Some years ago I received in the mail, a traffic offence notice for speeding in my Silver 2007 Subaru Impreza turbo. The place where I was supposed to have committed this offence was in Rotorua on a particular date. The problem was, I have never been to Rotorua, ever, least of all on the date in question. I wrote to the police and told them. They investigated and found that the traffic officer had swapped two of the digits around on the licence plate number. It just happened that the correct number was also a Silver Impreza but not a turbo and a different year (2006).

People make simple clerical errors all the time... even LEO's

You speeding?

 

[manifesto]

Is that like how you can prove that there was a 9 foot tall man armed with a musket on the grassy knoll?

No. Why do you ask?