Who determines the number of genders- and how?

cullennz said:
Swyers is an extremely rare biological disorder and is a totally different category.
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This a just handwaving. The traditional definition no more applies to women with Swyer syndrome than it does to transwomen. If you can't invoke it there, you can't invoke it here. You either need to concede that the definition isn't adequate, or you need to exclude women with Swyer syndrome from womanhood.

I'm going with the former option. You do you.
 
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mumblethrax said:
This a just handwaving. The traditional definition no more applies to women with Swyer syndrome than it does to a transwoman. If you can't invoke it there, you can't invoke it here. You either need to concede that the definition isn't adequate, or you need to exclude women with Swyer syndrome from womanhood.

I'm going with the former option. You do you.
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No you don't have to include them with dudes wanting to be as much as possible like a woman.
 
cullennz said:
You're saying trans people have a disorder
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No, I'm saying that the case of intersex people highlights the inadequacies of the traditional definition of man/woman, and that I see no real reason why whatever new definition emerges from that area can't or shouldn't be applied broadly. It has to be, if we want to remain coherent.

Does your view work with gay people as well or is it only gender?
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Yes, it works exactly the same way. When someone tells me he's gay, I say "Ok." I don't require a note from his doctor.
 
mumblethrax said:
No, I'm saying that the case of intersex people highlights the inadequacies of the traditional definition of man/woman, and that I see no real reason why whatever new definition emerges from that area can't or shouldn't be applied broadly. It has to be, if we want to remain coherent.


Yes, it works exactly the same way. When someone tells me he's gay, I say "Ok." I don't require a note from his doctor.
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So if you agree trans people arent are biological disorder they aren't the same then you agree they are a different category
 
Swyer syndrome fits into the sex definitions just fine. Sex is determined solely by the SRY gene, which is almost always (I believe there are rare exceptions) on the Y-chromosome.
 
cullennz said:
So if you agree trans people arent are biological disorder they aren't the same then you agree they are a different category
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No, I'm saying that your preoccupation with categories is a misguided attempt at special pleading. If the traditional definition of man/woman is inadequate for intersex people, then it's inadequate. If gender identity is how we distinguish intersex men from intersex women, then it seems like gender identity is in fact the essential operational characteristic that distinguishes men from women, and I see no reason not to extend the courtesy of acknowledging that gender identity to everyone.

Whether or not transgender people are in the same category as intersex people is simply immaterial.
 
mumblethrax said:
No, I'm saying that your preoccupation with categories is a misguided attempt at special pleading. If the traditional definition of man/woman is inadequate for intersex people, then it's inadequate. If gender identity is how we distinguish intersex men from intersex women, then it seems like gender identity is in fact the essential operational characteristic that distinguishes men from women, and I see no reason not to extend the courtesy of acknowledging that gender identity to everyone.

Whether or not transgender people are in the same category as intersex people is simply immaterial.
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Immaterial to you
 
pharphis said:
Swyer syndrome fits into the sex definitions just fine.
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Does it? You'll have to explain that to the medical community, where it's considered an intersex condition.

Sex is determined solely by the SRY gene, which is almost always (I believe there are rare exceptions) on the Y-chromosome.
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That's incorrect--SRY plays a role in sex determination, but is not the sole determiner of sex, even among humans.

And one of those rare exceptions is called "Swyer syndrome."
 
cullennz said:
So ypu aren't going on about them being the same issue?
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That's right. You can tell by the way I've never once said that, let alone went on about it.

Whats your argument again?
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That the existence of intersex people, and how we treat them, has implications on how we define words like 'man' and 'woman' which cannot coherently be limited to intersex people. Further, that they suggest those words need a little bit of updating, in light of what we now know about the subject.
 
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