Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge

[Axxman300]

1. He acted the opposite he was trained to do. He was a veteran in the detail, years of training.

Detail his training, and include how this training has changed since 1963.

2. He was fully aware of his acting during the shooting, begging Jackie to forgive him at Parkland.

And? He knew he screwed up. So did Kellerman, whom he took direct orders from, and Kellerman didn't respond after the first shot, and did order Greer to step on it after the second. Greer froze, it is something that the Secret Service didn't screen for in training back then.

3. He lied to the Commission, stating he did not look at JFK during the shooting and that he accelerated the limo away directly after hearing the first shot.

He may not have remembered, and he may have been looking for Clint Hill to reach the trunk.

This is not proof of guilt, but it is proof of very suspect behavior and lying about it sworn under oath.

That is a felony.

To prove he lied you'd have to prove his recollection was clear.

 

[manifesto]

I'm confused about Manifesto's new persona. Is he actually trying to claim that he's never read the Warren Commission, the HSCA, the Clark panel report, the Rockefeller commission report, or the ARRB? And he's trying to spin it as a good thing that he's never read anything other than conspiracy sources?

I have read most of it, but that is not the issue here. If someone makes a claim he/she has to be specific on what evidence that claim is made. To personally defend the claim.

Do you understand? I’m not a mind reader.

 

[Axxman300]

I'm confused about Manifesto's new persona. Is he actually trying to claim that he's never read the Warren Commission, the HSCA, the Clark panel report, the Rockefeller commission report, or the ARRB? And he's trying to spin it as a good thing that he's never read anything other than conspiracy sources?

These have been his only sources. He's admitted to only reading The Kennedy Detail for the assassination part, but not the entire book which reveals his lack of intellectual depth.

 

[RoboTimbo]

The only thing a ”link” explain is that it is a ”link”.

I know that already. I still do not no what ”debunking” you are refering to and I certainly doesn’t know HOW this ”debunking” was performed and why it is convincing, if it is convincing.

That, you have to explain, because you are the only one knowing what goes on in your own head.

1. You make a claim (debunked acoustics).

2. You explain by whom and how this was done.

I can’t do it for you.

Go read up on the assassination and come back when you're not quite as ignorant of the literature. You're simply way over your head since you know so little.

 

[RoboTimbo]

If someone makes a claim he/she has to be specific on what evidence that claim is made. To personally defend the claim.

Do you understand? I’m not a mind reader.

So you think someone else killed Kennedy?

 

[manifesto]

Detail his training, and include how this training has changed since 1963.

No, I do not have to detail his training since it was his mission to protect the president at any cost, including his own life. He had ONE task in doing this and that was to speed away at an instant when any sign of danger showed itself.

He did the opposite, he slowed down looking att the wounded president and the wounded Connaly while doing just that, slowing down. Until he saw the wounded presidents head explode.

And? He knew he screwed up. So did Kellerman, whom he took direct orders from, and Kellerman didn't respond after the first shot, and did order Greer to step on it after the second. Greer froze, it is something that the Secret Service didn't screen for in training back then.

Kellerman ordered Greer repetedly to speed away after hearing the first ”flurry of shots”: ”... but he continued to slow down, as if he didn’t belive me”.

He may not have remembered, and he may have been looking for Clint Hill to reach the trunk.

No excuse.

To prove he lied you'd have to prove his recollection was clear.

You just did it for me:

He knew he screwed up.​

He knew it in Parkland, begging Jackie to forgive him.

He lied to the Commission.

If all this is not suspicious, nothing is.

 

[manifesto]

So you think someone else killed Kennedy?

I do not know who killed JFK.

You do? Show me the evidence.

 

[HSienzant]

If someone makes a claim he/she has to be specific on what evidence that claim is made. To personally defend the claim.
Do you understand? I’m not a mind reader.

Neither are we. To date you've cited for little, and what you did attempt to cite for, those cites are links to conspiracy sites arguing for a conspiracy.

But you also reject links to anywhere, including to your own conspiracy sites.

You wrote:

The only thing a ”link” explain is that it is a ”link”.

Can you cite for any of your claims without links to the evidence for those claims?

Hank

 

[RoboTimbo]

I do not know who killed JFK.

You do? Show me the evidence.

Where did I say that?

 

[HSienzant]

Kellerman ordered Greer repetedly to speed away after hearing the first ”flurry of shots”: ”... but he continued to slow down, as if he didn’t belive me”.

What is the source of this quote?

Here's Kellerman's actual testimony on the speed of the limo:
== QUOTE ==
Mr. SPECTER. Did the metallic handhold which you described early in your testimony as being about 15 inches off the top of the seat and going all the way across the width of the car, did that metal structure present any substantial impediment to your moving from the front seat to the rear seat of the automobile?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, I think it would have been a small obstacle. However, let me say this: If I thought in my own mind that I was needed back there, there wouldn't have been an obstacle strong enough to hold me.
Mr. SPECTER. How about the presence of Governor Connally in the jump seat? Would the presence of Governor Connally or any passenger in the jump seat provide a substantial obstacle to your moving from your seat to shield the President's body?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Not at all. It wouldn't have made any difference, sir. Why? Because my job is to protect the President, sir, regardless of the obstacles.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Greer at any time use the radio in your car?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, did the President's automobile at any time slow down after the first shot?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No; not that I recall.
== UNQUOTE ==

Stop making stuff up, or stop quoting from sites that make stuff up.

Hank

 

[traxy]

I do not know who killed JFK.

You do? Show me the evidence.

Already did.

Rifling on bullets and fragments matches the Mannlicher Carcano recovered on the 6th floor of the depository. Fingerprints and palm prints on the weapon match Oswald. An order form provided by the vendor shows the rifle was shipped to Oswald's PO box. Oswald was photographed posing with the same rifle.

 

[Axxman300]

No, I do not have to detail his training since it was his mission to protect the president at any cost, including his own life.

You make your claim on the assumption that he was screened by the Secret Service to insure his abilities under stress. Every year hundreds of "trained professionals" fail to do their job in a moment of crisis.

This is not suspicious, it's human.

 

[Axxman300]

What is the source of this quote?

Here's Kellerman's actual testimony on the speed of the limo:
== QUOTE ==
Mr. SPECTER. Did the metallic handhold which you described early in your testimony as being about 15 inches off the top of the seat and going all the way across the width of the car, did that metal structure present any substantial impediment to your moving from the front seat to the rear seat of the automobile?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, I think it would have been a small obstacle. However, let me say this: If I thought in my own mind that I was needed back there, there wouldn't have been an obstacle strong enough to hold me.
Mr. SPECTER. How about the presence of Governor Connally in the jump seat? Would the presence of Governor Connally or any passenger in the jump seat provide a substantial obstacle to your moving from your seat to shield the President's body?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Not at all. It wouldn't have made any difference, sir. Why? Because my job is to protect the President, sir, regardless of the obstacles.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Greer at any time use the radio in your car?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, did the President's automobile at any time slow down after the first shot?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No; not that I recall.
== UNQUOTE ==

Stop making stuff up, or stop quoting from sites that make stuff up.

Hank

To convict on a felony charge that would have to prove that his did recall slowing down.

Greer is not part of any conspiracy, just another red herring.

 

[manifesto]

I've been showing you, and asking you to respond to the points I made over two years ago:

Hank

Ok, Hank lets go through them one at the time.

I wrote:

”Ok, fair enough. In the case of Oswald buying and owning the proposed murder weapon (CE-139) there are a multitude of problems with the evidence put forward by the FBI and the WC:


1. Most important. All the documents put forward by the FBI are copies of film of the originals, not the original documents. The originals are these days nowhere to be found.”​

You wrote:

”Why are the normal Kleins business records - (which were stored on microfilm and the originals discarded in the normal course of business and which suffice for everyday disputes) - not sufficient for YOU?

Because they point to Oswald?

Do you still get your original checks returned to you by your bank? Or do you get copies, which are sufficient to establish what you wrote and who you wrote it to? If you go to your bank and argue you didn't write that check and they can't prove it because there's no original, do you think you'd get very far? But that's the silly argument you're advancing here. Only microfilm copies of the orders were retained by Kleins. Those microfilm copies were their business records. They are perfectly acceptable - unless the accused name is Oswald, for some reason.”​

Lets begin with Kleins records allegedly showing Oswald buying the alleged murder weapon. FBI whent there the night of the assassination, searched the records and allegedly found the order on microfilm and took it with them when they left.

Where is this microfilm? Did the Commission look at it or did they only look at an alleged photo of it?

 

[manifesto]

So JFK was going to kill Greer, but Greer got to him first?

Hank

Was he? When? How? Where?

 

[OKBob]

I also presented a list of compelling evidence supporting that statement. And noted that Secret Service unlawfully destroyed all the records from the timeperiod making it probably impossible to ever know the truth.

You disagree?

I disagree entirely. You presented nothing but a catalogue of your private suspicions clustered about the idea that Greer was from a Protestant Irish background and JFK from an Catholic Irish one, combined with the suggestion that Greer as driver intended to expose JFK to gunfire (a begged question). There's nothing "compelling" about what you offered. Your knowledge of the JFK assassination literature is too thin, and your grasp of logic and sound argumentation too poor, to support any compelling claims here.

 

[manifesto]

To convict on a felony charge that would have to prove that his did recall slowing down.

Greer is not part of any conspiracy, just another red herring.

My point is that Kellerman ordered him to speed away, but he didn’t.

“Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn’t believe me.”​

That Greer decelerated the limo when he ”looked back of the car” is proven by the Zapruder-film.

Greer knew how he acted during the shooting. Greer lied to the Commission.

That is a felony.

 

[RoboTimbo]

My point is that Kellerman ordered him to speed away, but he didn’t.

“Greer then looked in the back of the car. Maybe he didn’t believe me.”​

That Greer decelerated the limo when he ”looked back of the car” is proven by the Zapruder-film.

Greer knew how he acted during the shooting. Greer lied to the Commission.

That is a felony.

Citation required.

 

[OKBob]

1. He acted the opposite he was trained to do. He was a veteran in the detail, years of training.

2. He was fully aware of his acting during the shooting, begging Jackie to forgive him at Parkland.

3. He lied to the Commission, stating he did not look at JFK during the shooting and that he accelerated the limo away directly after hearing the first shot.

This is not proof of guilt, but it is proof of very suspect behavior and lying about it sworn under oath.

That is a felony.

1. This is the "If I Ran the Zoo" fallacy. Under stressful circumstances, highly trained people sometimes fail to perform up to standards of perfection.

2. Greer's remorse in the minutes and hours after the shooting does not prove any culpable intent on his part during the motorcade. Far from it.

3. Rather, Greer did not necessarily remember his actions perfectly during a traumatic event. Begs the question and claims to run the zoo.

You don't know the difference between a felony and a parking violation.

 

[OKBob]

Greer knew how he acted during the shooting. Greer lied to the Commission.

These are begged questions. You claim that Greer did not perform up to your (nota bene: your) expectations during a confused, traumatic event, and from this you conclude that he acted culpably in Dealey Plaza and lied to the WC. Fail.