Axxman300
Philosopher
I love this place.
Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VI: Lyndon Johnson's Revenge
- Thread starter BStrong
- Start date
- Status
I love this place.
Axxman300
Philosopher
And yet you made a personal judgement based upon the driver's race and religion AND JFK's race and religion. You made a pejorative statement on Irish history which shows no attempt at understanding the Irish as human beings, nor the complex history of religion in that country.
You made an overtly racist comment.
The same sloppy attention to facts is also apparent when you proudly stated that you had only read The Kennedy Detail for the parts relating to the assassination. This is not how one reads a book. You start on page one, and read it to the final page (and if you're a history buff you read the notes and references in the back). Had you read the book like a normal person you would have learned that many of the Secret Service Agents had personal issues with the President's womanizing, some more than others, and yet they did their jobs.
The Presidential Detail is the pinnacle of service for a Secret Service Agent, it's their World Cup, their World Series, and their Super Bowl all in one. Many agents do not agree with, or even like the man they're sworn to protect, but they do it anyway as a matter of personal pride.
Nobody is defending William Greer's actions that day. Maybe he lied, maybe he just didn't remember what he actually did in those moments when bullets were flying. This doesn't make him a criminal without proof (like buying a rifle mail order, taking it to your place on employment, and leaving it there after you've shot the President), it just makes him a human being.
My country has been at war for 17 years, I know a lot of guys with PTSD, and some of it stems from two things:
1 - What you found yourself doing while under fire that you'd never believed you were capable of doing.
2 - The things you didn't do while you were under fire that you should have done, and needed to do, but didn't because you were afraid.
Greer freaked out, plain and simple. It's tragic, and unprofessional. Yet at the time only the military applied stress tests to evaluate candidates for key positions (pilots, submariners, special forces), the Secret Service did not do this until after the assassination. After the assassination everything changed because the Service was forced to admit they had often been more lucky than professional. The Presidential limousine became a hard-top, parade routes are chosen with better care, and the training the Secret Service protective detail agents receive is on par with Special Operations forces.
This thing you ignore with Greer is that he was IN THE LINE OF FIRE TOO.
Oswald's first shot was wide, he could have just as easily shot Greer or anyone else in the car.
Last edited:
Axxman300
Philosopher
The fingerprints that are STILL on the Carcano just under where the scope is mounted to the rifle. They found those during the HSCA, which makes it harder to claim they stuck it in Oswald's dead hand.
I though you were well read on the assassination.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12258531&postcount=1134
There’s also still fragments in Connallys thigh because the widow refused to allow an exhumation recovering them.
There’s also witnesses reporting of fragments not put on record.
What experts and what studies? Source. Quotes. Methods used. Etc.
Names and quotes? And why did not Lt. Day make a photo of it BEFORE lifting it as correct procedure demands?
And, why did he never SIGN the affidavit in where he claims his finding?
Easy to fake after the fact (as with the palm print).
”There was a serious question in the minds of the Commission as to whether or not the palm impression that has been obtained from the Dallas Police Department is a legitimate latent palm impression removed from the rifle barrel or whether it was obtained from some other source and that for this reason this matter needs to be resolved.”
(Rosen to Belmont, 28 August 1964, FBI HQ Oswald File, 105–82555–207)
“I just don’t believe there ever was a print,” said Drain [FBI]. He noted that there was increasing pressure on the Dallas police to build evidence in the case.
Asked to explain what might have happened, Agent Drain stated, “All I can figure is that it [Oswald’s print] was some sort of cushion, because they were getting a lot of heat by Sunday night. You could take the print off Oswald’s card and put it on the rifle. Something like that happened.”
(Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt: An Investigation into the Assassination of John F. Kennedy, Henry Holt, 1985, p.109)
"We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, and never did. Nobody's yet been able to put him in the building (Texas School Book Depository) with a gun in his hand."
(Chief of DPD Jesse Curry to interviewer Tom Johnson)
(Rosen to Belmont, 28 August 1964, FBI HQ Oswald File, 105–82555–207)
“I just don’t believe there ever was a print,” said Drain [FBI]. He noted that there was increasing pressure on the Dallas police to build evidence in the case.
Asked to explain what might have happened, Agent Drain stated, “All I can figure is that it [Oswald’s print] was some sort of cushion, because they were getting a lot of heat by Sunday night. You could take the print off Oswald’s card and put it on the rifle. Something like that happened.”
(Henry Hurt, Reasonable Doubt: An Investigation into the Assassination of John F. Kennedy, Henry Holt, 1985, p.109)
"We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, and never did. Nobody's yet been able to put him in the building (Texas School Book Depository) with a gun in his hand."
(Chief of DPD Jesse Curry to interviewer Tom Johnson)
When Henry Wade listed a long raw of ”evidence” (almost everything later withdrawn or debunked) against Oswald to the world press, not a word of finding his fingerprints on the rifle. A slam dunk of Oswalds quilt (at least handling the alleged murder weapon) and not a word?
Why?
None of the alleged prints were visible when FBI’s lab first searched it for prints, and the DPD didn’t announce its finding of the prints until after the rifle came back again from FBI HQ to the Dallas DP.
So, if Oswalds latent fingerprints are still visible on the rifle, why did not FBI see them when making a thourough investigation of it the first night after the assassination? The ”best crime lab in the world”?
Do you have access to the original order form or is it just FBI’s alleged photographs of it you are trying to sell as the real deal?
Show me.
Last edited:
One doesen’t need to be well read on the assassination in order to without effort refute your silly claims. Just google it and most of it are there in front of you.
You should try doing that BEFORE you press ”Submit Reply” the next time you get itchy fingers. It will save you all this embaressment and me, my precious time.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12258717&postcount=1144
JFK to Nehru, January, 1962:
”I grew up in a community where the people were hardly a generation away from colonial rule. And I can claim the company of many historians in saying that the colonialism to which my immediate ancestors were subject was more sterile, oppressive and even cruel than that of India.”
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/dodd-and-dulles-vs-kennedy-in-africaRobert?
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 8,607
Either provide evidence they are from a shot unaccounted for, or your point is moot and timewasting.
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 8,607
So... you are offering JFK's opinion, as evidence of somebody else's motives?
Really?
No I am quoting JFK to show that the Brittish colonization of Ireland starting ca 800 years ago was at least as brutal and racist as it’s colonization of India.
And lasted a little bit longer ...
Last edited:
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 8,607
Soooo... are you deliberately straying from the point of the post you responded to, and unable to support your claims about Greer's motives? Because as long and bloody as the history of Irish colonisation was, you seem to grievously misunderstanding the nature of the grievances of the Troubles.
The Troubles started a little bit later, but yes, they were firmly rooted in 800 years of brutal Brittish colonization of Ireland.
Of course.
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 8,607
Most recently and prominently the Centre Of Politics, at the University of Virginia, but should you read the thread, or ask to be directed towards suitable literature you will quickly become aware of several flaws in the HSCA analysis:
1) Voices that can be heard on the tapes show it happened after, not during the shots being fired.
2) The open mic was misidentified.
3) The methodology only proved that gunshots were one possible means of creating the impulses on the tape, but it was not the only means, and no significant method was given to identify which of the many impulses were significant, other than the assumption of timings.
It seems odd that somebody well read on the topic would have to ask.
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 8,607
No. The argument was that all the fragments recovered were connected to Oswalds gun.
Of the fragments recovered, all were connected to Oswald's gun.
Your attempt as sophistry fails.
HSienzant
Philosopher
FALSE. That was not the argument. You ignored the original argument and started talking about a different matter, that of supposedly 'missing' fragments.
We can all read what the original assertion was. You don't even know what you're arguing against anymore.
Hank
Last edited:
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2010
- Messages
- 8,607
Which still gets you no nearer to showing an understanding of the political, religious, and social divides, with respect to your assumed motive for Greer. Care to get back on point and "prove" his motivation?
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
You should discuss a topic that you know something - anything - about. This subject is not that subject.
...snip... If your ”answers” are incompleete or faulty, of course I have to ask you of further information in order to clear up the matter.
Edited by jsfisher:
Edited for compliance with Rule 12 of the Membership Agreement.
That said, Hank, do you have any evidence supporting your bald claim that Oswald killed JFK?
You alluded to a certain papertrail showing that Oswald bought the alleged murder weapon. Correct?
What paper trail?
Show me.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Status